Sugar is just plain sucrose, isn't it?

http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-share-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

Richard Tobin

2014-05-04 12:18:34 UTC

Post by graham
http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-share-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

For white sugar, it's more likely to be the difference in grain size
between different brands than the origin of the sugar.

-- Richard

graham

2014-05-04 13:14:17 UTC

Post by graham
http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-share-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

For white sugar, it's more likely to be the difference in grain size
between different brands than the origin of the sugar.
-- Richard

That was my thinking too. However, one poster on the US group maintains
that they smell different.
Graham

Tim C.

2014-05-05 07:19:37 UTC

Post by graham
http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-share-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

For white sugar, it's more likely to be the difference in grain size
between different brands than the origin of the sugar.
-- Richard

That was my thinking too. However, one poster on the US group maintains
that they smell different.
Graham

Maybe they put something in them in the US. I can't say I've ever noticed
that (refined, white) sugar has a smell at all.

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

Duncan Booth

2014-05-05 17:48:08 UTC

Post by graham
http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-

shar

Post by graham
e-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

For white sugar, it's more likely to be the difference in grain size
between different brands than the origin of the sugar.
-- Richard

That was my thinking too. However, one poster on the US group
maintains that they smell different.
Graham

Maybe they put something in them in the US. I can't say I've ever
noticed that (refined, white) sugar has a smell at all.

McGee says "usually there's no difference, but beet sugar can sometimes
have a slight off flavour".

If the grain size is different then so will be the density. The recipes
in the article all follow the US practice of measuring by volume and
baking is one area of cooking that needs accurate measurements so it
wouldn't surprise me if that was indeed sufficient to explain most of
the difference they found.

--
http://tribbletasting.blogspot.com

graham

2014-05-05 18:36:40 UTC

Post by graham
http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-

shar

Post by graham
e-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

For white sugar, it's more likely to be the difference in grain size
between different brands than the origin of the sugar.
-- Richard

That was my thinking too. However, one poster on the US group
maintains that they smell different.
Graham

Maybe they put something in them in the US. I can't say I've ever
noticed that (refined, white) sugar has a smell at all.

McGee says "usually there's no difference, but beet sugar can sometimes
have a slight off flavour".

So cane sugar possibly has better tasting contaminants.
Graham

Duncan Booth

2014-05-06 15:10:58 UTC

Post by Tim C.
Maybe they put something in them in the US. I can't say I've ever
noticed that (refined, white) sugar has a smell at all.

McGee says "usually there's no difference, but beet sugar can sometimes
have a slight off flavour".

So cane sugar possibly has better tasting contaminants.
Graham

Well, yes it does.

White sugar should have very few contaminents. Brown sugar on the other
hand gets the colour from the impurities, but are produced differently for
cane and beet sugar: brown cane sugar is usually just not entirely refined
so some molasses remain (though it could be made as white sugar and the
molasses added back). Brown beet sugar is made by taking white beet sugar
and adding molasses from cane sugar; apparently the beet molasses aren't
suitable for human consumption.

--
http://tribbletasting.blogspot.com

graham

2014-05-06 19:36:09 UTC

Post by Tim C.
Maybe they put something in them in the US. I can't say I've ever
noticed that (refined, white) sugar has a smell at all.

McGee says "usually there's no difference, but beet sugar can sometimes
have a slight off flavour".

So cane sugar possibly has better tasting contaminants.
Graham

Well, yes it does.
White sugar should have very few contaminents. Brown sugar on the other
hand gets the colour from the impurities, but are produced differently for
cane and beet sugar: brown cane sugar is usually just not entirely refined
so some molasses remain (though it could be made as white sugar and the
molasses added back). Brown beet sugar is made by taking white beet sugar
and adding molasses from cane sugar; apparently the beet molasses aren't
suitable for human consumption.

In this case, we are talking about the *supposed* difference between
white sugars sourced from cane or beet.
I was shown around a sugar beet factory many years ago and ISTR that the
beet molasses was added back to the beet fibrous residue to be used as
cattle feed.
Graham

Tim C.

2014-05-07 06:25:18 UTC

Post by Duncan Booth
; apparently the beet molasses aren't
suitable for human consumption.

Millions of Germans eat it. They spread it on bread.

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

Tim C.

2014-05-07 06:23:31 UTC

Post by Duncan Booth
McGee says "usually there's no difference, but beet sugar can sometimes
have a slight off flavour".
If the grain size is different then so will be the density. The recipes
in the article all follow the US practice of measuring by volume and
baking is one area of cooking that needs accurate measurements so it
wouldn't surprise me if that was indeed sufficient to explain most of
the difference they found.

I tend to agree. And possibly a certain variation in residual water. But
there will always be "impurities" - it's refined, but not pure sugar.
I'd like to see the "cooks that know" try a double-blind test and then see
what happens.
And as you say the US love of measuring everything in cups (for sugar,
flour, butter etc) would - I expect - lead to more of a variation than
anything in the sugar.

Grain size has nothing to do with the source of the sugar though. It's
purely down the processing in the factories (the market and cultural
differences). Granule size can vary from country to country.
There is basically one grade of "granulated" sugar in the UK, whereas there
are two grades available in Austria (one coarser and one finer than the
UK), and the icing (powder) sugar in the UK is finer than the icing sugar
here.

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

graham

2014-05-07 13:23:57 UTC

I tend to agree. And possibly a certain variation in residual water. But
there will always be "impurities" - it's refined, but not pure sugar.
I'd like to see the "cooks that know" try a double-blind test and then see
what happens.
And as you say the US love of measuring everything in cups (for sugar,
flour, butter etc) would - I expect - lead to more of a variation than
anything in the sugar.
Grain size has nothing to do with the source of the sugar though. It's
purely down the processing in the factories (the market and cultural
differences). Granule size can vary from country to country.
There is basically one grade of "granulated" sugar in the UK,

Not so! There's caster sugar as well, which is finer than granulated. In
Canada it is called "berry sugar" for some reason.

whereas there

Post by Tim C.
are two grades available in Austria (one coarser and one finer than the
UK), and the icing (powder) sugar in the UK is finer than the icing sugar
here.

Tim C.

2014-05-08 11:40:30 UTC

Post by Tim C.
Grain size has nothing to do with the source of the sugar though. It's
purely down the processing in the factories (the market and cultural
differences). Granule size can vary from country to country.
There is basically one grade of "granulated" sugar in the UK,

Not so! There's caster sugar as well, which is finer than granulated. In
Canada it is called "berry sugar" for some reason.

Going from memory, caster sugar is slightly finer than the German fein
kristal.

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

Janet

2014-05-07 16:48:53 UTC

Post by Tim C.
There is basically one grade of "granulated" sugar in the UK,

If you're speaking of white, you forgot castor sugar, and jam sugar.
Both finer than white "table" sugar.

Since granulated means particle size, it also refers to brown/cane
sugars, which come in even more "sizes" than white.

All available in any UK smkt.

Janet.

Giusi

2014-05-06 06:16:02 UTC

Post by graham
http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-share-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

For white sugar, it's more likely to be the difference in grain size
between different brands than the origin of the sugar.
-- Richard

That was my thinking too. However, one poster on the US group maintains
that they smell different.
Graham

Maybe they put something in them in the US. I can't say I've ever noticed
that (refined, white) sugar has a smell at all.

One of the few things with no additions, as it would screw up cooking. But it does smell. If you don't believe me, make two cups of black coffee and put sugar in one then smell both.

Tim C.

2014-05-07 06:14:09 UTC

Post by graham
http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-share-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

For white sugar, it's more likely to be the difference in grain size
between different brands than the origin of the sugar.
-- Richard

That was my thinking too. However, one poster on the US group maintains
that they smell different.
Graham

Maybe they put something in them in the US. I can't say I've ever noticed
that (refined, white) sugar has a smell at all.

One of the few things with no additions, as it would screw up cooking. But it does smell. If you don't believe me, make two cups of black coffee and put sugar in one then smell both.

Oh yes, it smells sweet. But has no other distinctive smell. Is what I
meant.
But can you tell the difference between the smell of cups sweetened with
refined white cane and beet sugar?

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

Giusi

2014-05-07 09:00:26 UTC

Post by Tim C.
Oh yes, it smells sweet. But has no other distinctive smell. Is what I
meant.
But can you tell the difference between the smell of cups sweetened with
refined white cane and beet sugar?

I don't know. I can only buy cane sugar as light or dark brown sugar. I never had the occasion to test it and now I cannot.

graham

2014-05-07 13:26:21 UTC

Post by graham
http://www.sfgate.com/recipes/article/SUGAR-SUGAR-Cane-and-beet-share-the-same-2939081.php#page-1

For white sugar, it's more likely to be the difference in grain size
between different brands than the origin of the sugar.
-- Richard

That was my thinking too. However, one poster on the US group maintains
that they smell different.
Graham

Maybe they put something in them in the US. I can't say I've ever noticed
that (refined, white) sugar has a smell at all.

One of the few things with no additions, as it would screw up cooking. But it does smell. If you don't believe me, make two cups of black coffee and put sugar in one then smell both.

Oh yes, it smells sweet. But has no other distinctive smell. Is what I
meant.
But can you tell the difference between the smell of cups sweetened with
refined white cane and beet sugar?

I don't think the UK produces anywhere near enough beet sugar and I am
pretty certain that a good proportion of Tate & Lyle's white sugar is
derived from cane.
Graham

Janet

2014-05-07 16:38:00 UTC

Post by graham
I don't think the UK produces anywhere near enough beet sugar

http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/sugar_beet_farming.cfm

"The root of the beet has a sugar content of around 17% and in the UK
provides over half of the sugar we use. The balance comes from sugar
cane that grows in tropical and semi-torpical regions of the world."

and I am

Post by graham
pretty certain that a good proportion of Tate & Lyle's white sugar is
derived from cane.

It is. T +L's big selling point in the UK is as a Fairtrade company

http://www.tateandlyle.presscentre.com/Press-releases/Tate-Lyle-
Establishes-Fairtrade-For-All-2fb.aspx

Less refined brown and golden cane sugars do taste smell and perform
differently from refined white. However, I'd challenge anyone to tell
any such differences between white cane sugar and beet sugar.

Janet

graham

2014-05-07 17:35:43 UTC

Post by Janet

Post by graham
I don't think the UK produces anywhere near enough beet sugar

http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/sugar_beet_farming.cfm
"The root of the beet has a sugar content of around 17% and in the UK
provides over half of the sugar we use. The balance comes from sugar
cane that grows in tropical and semi-torpical regions of the world."
and I am

Post by graham
pretty certain that a good proportion of Tate & Lyle's white sugar is
derived from cane.

It is. T +L's big selling point in the UK is as a Fairtrade company
http://www.tateandlyle.presscentre.com/Press-releases/Tate-Lyle-
Establishes-Fairtrade-For-All-2fb.aspx
Less refined brown and golden cane sugars do taste smell and perform
differently from refined white. However, I'd challenge anyone to tell
any such differences between white cane sugar and beet sugar.
Janet

My thoughts exactly! You may have seen the discussion on the rfc where
people claim that white cane and white beet sugars stink differently.
I suppose it must depend on the amount of air in their heads.
Graham

Janet

2014-05-07 18:34:59 UTC

Post by Janet

Post by graham
I don't think the UK produces anywhere near enough beet sugar

http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/sugar_beet_farming.cfm
"The root of the beet has a sugar content of around 17% and in the UK
provides over half of the sugar we use. The balance comes from sugar
cane that grows in tropical and semi-torpical regions of the world."
and I am

Post by graham
pretty certain that a good proportion of Tate & Lyle's white sugar is
derived from cane.

It is. T +L's big selling point in the UK is as a Fairtrade company
http://www.tateandlyle.presscentre.com/Press-releases/Tate-Lyle-
Establishes-Fairtrade-For-All-2fb.aspx
Less refined brown and golden cane sugars do taste smell and perform
differently from refined white. However, I'd challenge anyone to tell
any such differences between white cane sugar and beet sugar.
Janet

Yes, I saw it :-( No doubt "informed" by the cane sugar industry.

Janet.

felangey

2014-05-07 20:39:26 UTC

Post by graham
My thoughts exactly! You may have seen the discussion on the rfc where
people claim that white cane and white beet sugars stink differently.
I suppose it must depend on the amount of air in their heads.
Graham

I don't know about the smell, but they certainly caramelise
differently....with beet burning faster.

graham

2014-05-07 20:51:59 UTC

Post by felangey

I don't know about the smell, but they certainly caramelise
differently....with beet burning faster.

That might be due to beet sugar having a smaller grain size. After all,
icing sugar burns *very* quickly.
Graham

Steve Slatcher

2014-05-11 12:40:54 UTC