Discussion:
Flavonoids in wine
(too old to reply)
John Silver
2014-02-12 00:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information
except for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969

John
Giusi
2014-02-12 09:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information
except for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
Find out the characteristics of high flavenoid wines and then the wines that fit the description will likely have them. I have not and probably never will choose a wine on that basis, but why not? As I recall some of the super Tuscans contain nebbiolo grapes, the heavy reds would include primitivo, sangiovese, barolo, and I'll let Judith Lea give you the French ones.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-12 09:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Find out the characteristics of high flavenoid wines and then the wines that fit the description will likely have them.
it seems its about getting a lot of contact with the skins at the
right time, heavy, dark tannic wines seem the business. Just what I
like :-)
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-12 11:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Find out the characteristics of high flavenoid wines and then the wines that fit the description will likely have them.
it seems its about getting a lot of contact with the skins at the
right time, heavy, dark tannic wines seem the business. Just what I
like :-)
How about the Portuguese Tinto's? Though I have have not noticed them here.
John
Steve Slatcher
2014-02-15 18:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giusi
As I recall some of the super Tuscans contain nebbiolo grapes
The grapes in supertuscans are typically Sangiovese, and the so-called
international varieties like Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Syrah. And
Italian Nebbiolo is almost exclusively grown in the North West of the
country. That's not to say there might be a few examples of
supertuscans with Nebbiolo, but it is not an obvious source of that grape.
--
www.winenous.co.uk
Steve Slatcher
2014-02-15 19:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Giusi
As I recall some of the super Tuscans contain nebbiolo grapes
The grapes in supertuscans are typically Sangiovese, and the so-called
international varieties like Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Syrah. And
Italian Nebbiolo is almost exclusively grown in the North West of the
country. That's not to say there might be a few examples of
supertuscans with Nebbiolo, but it is not an obvious source of that grape.
I realise it was mentioned in the top post, but am not sure whether
Nebbiolo is such a good grape for flavenoids either. It makes very
tannics wines, but the colour of wines made from Nebbiolo is not that
dark and it fades rapidly with time - the section from Corder quoted
elsewhere in the thread suggests that it is the colour that is important.
--
www.winenous.co.uk
Giusi
2014-02-16 12:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Giusi
As I recall some of the super Tuscans contain nebbiolo grapes
The grapes in supertuscans are typically Sangiovese, and the so-called
international varieties like Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Syrah. And
Italian Nebbiolo is almost exclusively grown in the North West of the
country. That's not to say there might be a few examples of
supertuscans with Nebbiolo, but it is not an obvious source of that grape.
Our local red wine in this part of Umbria is Sangiovese and Nebbiolo. I agree that most of it is not grown here, but if looking for flevenoids, I wouldn't skip the supertuscans.
Steve Slatcher
2014-02-16 18:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giusi
Our local red wine in this part of Umbria is Sangiovese and Nebbiolo.
Really? May I ask which wine that is? I am not doubting you - just
intrigued.
Post by Giusi
if looking for flevenoids, I wouldn't skip the supertuscans.
I wouldn't argue with that.
--
www.winenous.co.uk
Giusi
2014-02-17 11:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Giusi
Our local red wine in this part of Umbria is Sangiovese and Nebbiolo.
Really? May I ask which wine that is? I am not doubting you - just
intrigued.
Post by Giusi
if looking for flevenoids, I wouldn't skip the supertuscans.
I wouldn't argue with that.
It's our local wine, bought, if one must buy, from tanks into your own bottles. It's the primary wine people make for themselves. To get names, you have to go south to Torgiano, Montefalco, etc.
Steve Slatcher
2014-02-20 19:01:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giusi
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Giusi
Our local red wine in this part of Umbria is Sangiovese and Nebbiolo.
Really? May I ask which wine that is? I am not doubting you - just
intrigued.
Post by Giusi
if looking for flevenoids, I wouldn't skip the supertuscans.
I wouldn't argue with that.
It's our local wine, bought, if one must buy, from tanks into your own bottles. It's the primary wine people make for themselves. To get names, you have to go south to Torgiano, Montefalco, etc.
More and more interesting. Nebbiolo is difficult to grow, and usually
fetches high prices.

I have just checked in Jancis Robinson's book "Wine Grapes" and the only
mention of Italian Nebbiolo outside of the North West is on Sardinia - a
mere 25 ha. If you live in a little enclave of Nebbiolo production, I
think Jancis would be keep to know about it.

OTOH I have just noticed Umbria does have an extremely tannic grape
called Sagrantino.
--
www.winenous.co.uk
John Silver
2014-02-20 23:02:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Giusi
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Giusi
Our local red wine in this part of Umbria is Sangiovese and Nebbiolo.
Really? May I ask which wine that is? I am not doubting you - just
intrigued.
Post by Giusi
if looking for flevenoids, I wouldn't skip the supertuscans.
I wouldn't argue with that.
It's our local wine, bought, if one must buy, from tanks into your own
bottles. It's the primary wine people make for themselves. To get
names, you have to go south to Torgiano, Montefalco, etc.
More and more interesting. Nebbiolo is difficult to grow, and usually
fetches high prices.
I have just checked in Jancis Robinson's book "Wine Grapes" and the only
mention of Italian Nebbiolo outside of the North West is on Sardinia - a
mere 25 ha. If you live in a little enclave of Nebbiolo production, I
think Jancis would be keep to know about it.
OTOH I have just noticed Umbria does have an extremely tannic grape
called Sagrantino.
Too pricey for me.

http://www.bbr.com/grape-so-sagrantino?gclid=CIvuj8vn27wCFZShtAodBCkARQ
John
John Silver
2014-02-16 19:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giusi
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Giusi
As I recall some of the super Tuscans contain nebbiolo grapes
The grapes in supertuscans are typically Sangiovese, and the so-called
international varieties like Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Syrah. And
Italian Nebbiolo is almost exclusively grown in the North West of the
country. That's not to say there might be a few examples of
supertuscans with Nebbiolo, but it is not an obvious source of that grape.
Our local red wine in this part of Umbria is Sangiovese and Nebbiolo. I agree that most of it is not grown here, but if looking for flevenoids, I wouldn't skip the supertuscans.
Can you name a few supertuscans available in UK.
John
Steve Slatcher
2014-02-19 19:05:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Can you name a few supertuscans available in UK.
They are basically good quality (i.e. expensive) wines that have a very
basic classification. They were orginally "Vino da Tavola", but now are
more likely to be classified as "Toscana IGT". But there is no strict
definition. Check out the link below. Any wine with a region of
"Toscana IGT" selling for over £40 or so would probably qualify. Click
on the wine for UK stockists.

http://www.wine-searcher.com/find/toscana+igt/2/uk/-/x
--
www.winenous.co.uk
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-12 09:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information
except for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
It seems dark heavy reds are best, as you might think, it seems to be
dependant on the winemaking technique, so general rules will not be
great guides -


<http://www.frenchscout.com/polyphenols#polyphenols>
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wine-Professor-Roger-Corder-MRPharmS/dp/0751542016/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392198698&sr=1-1&keywords=the+red+wine+diet>

OPCs depend on winemaking

OPCs are essentially polymer chains of flavonoids. These procyanidins
are the most abundant flavonoid polyphenols in red wine — up to one
gram per litre is found in some traditional style red wines.
Repartition is discussed below.

Dr. Roger Corder is an author of many scientific papers detailing his
research into the flavonoids of foods, but wine in particular. He
summarized his findings in a 2007 book, The Red Wine Diet. Dr.
Corder's compilation is a good discussion of flavonoids in foods and
wines. Although it would have been more entertaining if peppered with
more wit and humans interest, given the topic, its straightfoward,
semi-academic telling of the story makes his points effectively.

Among the important observations Corder makes is that regions of the
world with the greatest longevity also correspond to regions with the
highest procyanidin flavonoids in their wines. Regarding the variable
flavonoid content of various wines, he states:

"Although differences in the amount of procyanidins in red wine
clearly occur because of the grape variety and the vineyard
environment, the winemaker holds the key to what ends up in the
bottle. The most important aspect of the winemaking process for
ensuring high procyanidins in red wines is the contact time between
the liquid and the grape seeds during fermentation when the alcohol
concentration reaches about 6 percent. Depending on the fermentation
temperature, it may be two to three days or more before this
extraction process starts. Grape skins float and seeds sink, so the
number of times they are pushed down and stirred into the fermenting
wine also increases extraction of procyanidins. Even so, extraction is
a slow process and, after fermentation is complete, many red wines are
left to macerate with their seeds and skins for days or even weeks in
order to extract all the color, flavor, and tannins. Wines that have a
contact time of less than seven days will have a relatively low level
of procyanidins. Wines with a contact time of 10 to 14 days have
decent levels, and those with contact times of three weeks or more
have the highest."

He points out that deeply-colored reds are more likely to be richer in
procyanidins. Wines rich in procyanidins provide several-fold more,
such that a single glass can provide the same purported health benefit
as several glasses of a procyanidin-poor wine.


Varietals and OPC

So how do various wines stack up in procyanidin content? Here's an
abbreviated list from Corder's book, The Red Wine Diet:

Australia — tend to be low, except for Australian Cabernet Sauvignon
which is moderate.

Chile — only Cabernet Sauvignon stands out, then only moderate in
content.

France — Where to start? The French, of course, are the perennial
masters of wine, and prolonged contact with skins and seeds is usually
taken for granted in many varieties of wine. French wines are better
designated by region, rather than by variety of grape. Each wine
region can vary widely in flavonoid content:

Bordeaux red wines rate moderately;

Burgundy red wines low to moderate;

Languedoc-Roussillon red wines moderate to high (and many great
bargains);

Rhone red wines (Côtes du Rhône) moderate to high.

Malbec and tannat seem to be the varieties with the most OPC.

Italy — Much red Italian wine is made from the sangiovese grape and
called variously Chianti, Valpolicella, and "super-Tuscan" when
blended with other varietals. Corder rates the southern Italian wines
from Sicily, Sardinia, and the mainland as high in procyanidins; most
northern varieties are moderate.

Spain — Moderate in general.

United States — Cabernet Sauvignon is the standout for procyanidin
content.

Other stuff:-
"The flavonoids and polyphenols found in four different types of
chocolate (white, milk, 40% cocoa dark and 71% cocoa dark) and four
varieties of red wine (Pinot-Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and
Tannat) were evaluated. The best results were found using 71% cocoa
dark chocolate (D71) (flavonoids = 21.6 ± 2.4 ?mol of catechin
equivalents/g and polyphenols = 62.9 ± 0.1 ?mol of catechin
equivalents/g) and Tannat wine (flavonoids = 5.4 ± 0.1 ?mol of
catechin equivalents/ml and polyphenols = 14.3 ± 1.1 ?mol of catechin
equivalents/ml) which were statistically different against other
varieties. Vanillin flavour was shown to interfere with colour
development in the spectrophotometric analysis of the flavonoids. The
results indicated that 49 g of D71 dark chocolate has the same
quantity of flavonoids as that of 196 ml of Tannat wine, which is the
daily wine intake recommended to produce health benefits in an adult
of 70 kg body weight."

So "tannat" looks good


" The amount of catechins present varies among grape varieties with
varietals like Pinot noir having high concentrations while Merlot and
especially Syrah have very low levels. "
--
Mike... . . . .
graham
2014-02-15 20:31:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-16 11:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by graham
Post by graham
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
--
Mike... . . . .
Giusi
2014-02-16 12:07:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by graham
Post by graham
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
I and most Italians do not like to get pissed. We drink wine partly for tradition and partly because our food tends to demand it.
We are not delusional.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-16 13:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
We drink wine partly for tradition and partly because our food tends to demand it.
not because it has alcohol in it which has a pleasant effect, sure.
--
Mike... . . . .
Giusi
2014-02-17 11:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
We drink wine partly for tradition and partly because our food tends to demand it.
not because it has alcohol in it which has a pleasant effect, sure.
--
Mike... . . . .
I think there is a continent of distance between getting pissed and having one or two glasses of wine with a meal.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-17 11:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Post by Mike.. . . .
Post by Giusi
We drink wine partly for tradition and partly because our food tends to demand it.
not because it has alcohol in it which has a pleasant effect, sure.
I think there is a continent of distance between getting pissed and having one or two glasses of wine with a meal.
I was overstating for effect, the primary reason booze is there is the
effect on mood, taste comes second. Pissed v two glasses is just
degree. Not different in principal.
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-16 19:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giusi
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by graham
Post by graham
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
I and most Italians do not like to get pissed. We drink wine partly for tradition and partly because our food tends to demand it.
We are not delusional.
Why do your foods demand it???
John
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-17 10:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
Post by Giusi
I and most Italians do not like to get pissed. We drink wine partly for tradition and partly because our food tends to demand it.
We are not delusional.
Why do your foods demand it???
my spag bol often calls out for vino, bit scary really. The food I
think most calls out for beer or wine is cheese. Cheddar and a pint.
Guisi will say she hates beer, she doesnt know about good beer. As far
as I know Italy is a beer desert. Just some crap lager. What could be
less italian than a couple of pints from a barrel behind the bar in
convivial surroundings with nobody giving a shit what you look like
and a huge slab of proper cheddar from Cheddar. And cricket outside,
cant stand watching it but its Britsh. I may have to start voting for
these ukipper johnnies.
--
Mike... . . . .
Giusi
2014-02-17 11:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
Why do your foods demand it???
my spag bol often calls out for vino, bit scary really. The food I
think most calls out for beer or wine is cheese. Cheddar and a pint.
Guisi will say she hates beer, she doesnt know about good beer. As far
as I know Italy is a beer desert. Just some crap lager. What could be
less italian than a couple of pints from a barrel behind the bar in
convivial surroundings with nobody giving a shit what you look like
and a huge slab of proper cheddar from Cheddar. And cricket outside,
cant stand watching it but its Britsh. I may have to start voting for
these ukipper johnnies.
--
Mike... . . . .
Not only does my food generally demand wine, but very often a particular type of wine. When I do parties, I have a sommellier help, and he comes and eats the dishes (with his wife) before suggesting the wines. I can say a young fruity red for many of my lamb dishes, but he says which one. OTH, pork cooked in milk demands a big, spicy white.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-17 12:11:23 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Post by Mike.. . . .
my spag bol often calls out for vino, bit scary really. The food I
think most calls out for beer or wine is cheese. Cheddar and a pint.
Guisi will say she hates beer, she doesnt know about good beer. As far
as I know Italy is a beer desert. Just some crap lager. What could be
less italian than a couple of pints from a barrel behind the bar in
convivial surroundings with nobody giving a shit what you look like
and a huge slab of proper cheddar from Cheddar. And cricket outside,
cant stand watching it but its Britsh. I may have to start voting for
these ukipper johnnies.
--
Mike... . . . .
Not only does my food generally demand wine, but very often a particular type of wine.
When I do parties, I have a sommellier help, and he comes and eats the dishes (with his wife) before suggesting the wines.
I can say a young fruity red for many of my lamb dishes, but he says which one. OTH, pork cooked in milk demands a big, spicy white.
your food does not "demand" wine any more than my cheese demands beer,
in most cases less so. Different types of lamb (say fell reared
herdwicke v NZ) vary more between each other than most red wines.
coming down to a single young fruity red for lamb is wine sillyness of
the highest degree.
--
Mike... . . . .
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-17 13:28:28 UTC
Permalink
and another thing.. . . .

When I have a dinner party I have a parmentier who comes round and
decrees which breed of potato I should use and what method of cooking
goes with the meat or fish. We had a long argument last time about the
relative merits of roseval v pink fir apple with white fish. Also he
wanted chips while I wanted boiled. The wine however is easy, same
colour as the meat, simple rule, home and dry.
You may think I have this the wrong way round but as spuds vary more
than wine I think its sensible. But I *do* have other wine tips:-

keep the white in the fridge.
the sweet ones go with pudding.
Don't drink more than a bottle each.
2004 was a good year for Dom Perignon but its £114.99 a shot
wine tastes better out of glasses.
If asked to taste in a restro you are only checking its the right
temperature and not corked, so don't tell him how nice it is, just say
fine, thank you.


There you are, youre all experts now.
--
Mike... . . . .
Giusi
2014-02-18 10:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
and another thing.. . . .
When I have a dinner party I have a parmentier who comes round and
decrees which breed of potato I should use and what method of cooking
goes with the meat or fish. We had a long argument last time about the
relative merits of roseval v pink fir apple with white fish. Also he
wanted chips while I wanted boiled. The wine however is easy, same
colour as the meat, simple rule, home and dry.
You may think I have this the wrong way round but as spuds vary more
than wine I think its sensible. But I *do* have other wine tips:-
keep the white in the fridge.
the sweet ones go with pudding.
Don't drink more than a bottle each.
2004 was a good year for Dom Perignon but its £114.99 a shot
wine tastes better out of glasses.
If asked to taste in a restro you are only checking its the right
temperature and not corked, so don't tell him how nice it is, just say
fine, thank you.
You do realize that I was speaking about my work, right?
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-18 12:25:22 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Post by Mike.. . . .
keep the white in the fridge.
the sweet ones go with pudding.
Don't drink more than a bottle each.
2004 was a good year for Dom Perignon but its £114.99 a shot
wine tastes better out of glasses.
If asked to taste in a restro you are only checking its the right
temperature and not corked, so don't tell him how nice it is, just say
fine, thank you.
You do realize that I was speaking about my work, right?
its usenet, thats advice for anybody.
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-18 23:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
and another thing.. . . .
When I have a dinner party I have a parmentier who comes round and
decrees which breed of potato
I would have her round any time:-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie-Marie_Parmentier
John
Giusi
2014-02-18 10:55:23 UTC
Permalink
On Monday, February 17, 2014 1:11:23 PM UTC+1, Mike..... wrote:
Different types of lamb (say fell reared
Post by Mike.. . . .
herdwicke v NZ) vary more between each other than most red wines.
coming down to a single young fruity red for lamb is wine sillyness of
the highest degree.
Sez the man who salts nothing. Do you realize that you do not taste what we taste? That said, I KNOW you are wrong about choosing and pairing wines, because I live it. I sure wouldn't pay a guy a bunch of money and feed him and his wife a meal if it wasn't worth it.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-18 12:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Sez the man who salts nothing. Do you realize that you do not taste what we taste?
Carol has very sensitive taste buds and can pick out what is in any
dish. How can there be just one wine for a dish? its ridiculous!
--
Mike... . . . .
W.A. Sawford
2014-02-18 12:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Sez the man who salts nothing. Do you realize that you do not taste what we taste?
Carol has very sensitive taste buds and can pick out what is in any
dish. How can there be just one wine for a dish? its ridiculous!
I took Giusi to mean that she was trying to find the best possible match
she can for a given dish. What's wrong with that?

Wendy
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-18 13:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by W.A. Sawford
Post by W.A. Sawford
Post by Mike.. . . .
Carol has very sensitive taste buds and can pick out what is in any
dish. How can there be just one wine for a dish? its ridiculous!
I took Giusi to mean that she was trying to find the best possible match
she can for a given dish. What's wrong with that?
At the level of *your* statement, not that much except it ignores
personal taste. If you go further down that road I think it gets
silly.

If the sommelier thinks young fruity red is best for lamb OK, but I
would have an older wine because I don't enjoy young fruity reds all
that much and anyway I think the strong flavour of lamb is better with
a heavy red. He likes young fruity with lamb, fine, he should drink
it. Do you have somebody to dictate what food you can eat with what?
Of course not, why do it with wine? Do restaurants have people
dictating what course matches other courses? Of course not, so let
people choose the wine they like. I know of people who drink red with
fish or white with everything, its up to them even though they are
"wrong" by the rules (and wrong in my personal opinion). But who knows
how they taste?

I often accept wine flights with tasting menus and the sommelier in
the better places have sometimes modified the flight on the basis of
what I drank before, or on expressed preferences, so they clearly
didn't think the relationship was so precise.

Going to these extremes seems too much. Going as far as young fruity
red, OK, thats his opinion. Maybe it can be ojectively supported.
Going further down to individual estates is stretching the point too
far. Its not as if there is some precise relationship between the wine
and the lamb and lamb itself varies in taste a lot.

By the way, the 2004 Dom Perignon was unctious with ocietra, but would
have been bizarre with beluga, that would need the 2006. Is that
statement mad or not?

I have a better idea, lets have people who match your clothes to the
food, bocatini amatriciano - "red shirt sir, step this way". "Oysters?
I suggest more cleavage on show for the lady". Mad? Intrusive? Of
course.
--
Mike... . . . .
W.A. Sawford
2014-02-18 15:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
If the sommelier thinks young fruity red is best for lamb OK, but I
would have an older wine because I don't enjoy young fruity reds all
that much and anyway I think the strong flavour of lamb is better with
a heavy red. He likes young fruity with lamb, fine, he should drink
it. Do you have somebody to dictate what food you can eat with what?
Of course not, why do it with wine? Do restaurants have people
dictating what course matches other courses? Of course not, so let
people choose the wine they like. I know of people who drink red with
fish or white with everything, its up to them even though they are
"wrong" by the rules (and wrong in my personal opinion). But who knows
how they taste?
Of course it's personal opinion. I love red wine with a fish curry, so
long as its full bodied and can stand up to it. Someone else might hate
that. A sommelier might go for an aromatic white to please more people
more of the time, in a context such as Giusi's. I don't see what you are
getting so steamed up about frankly.
Post by Mike.. . . .
I often accept wine flights with tasting menus and the sommelier in
the better places have sometimes modified the flight on the basis of
what I drank before, or on expressed preferences, so they clearly
didn't think the relationship was so precise.
What's a wine flight? Do you mean a wine tasting?
Post by Mike.. . . .
By the way, the 2004 Dom Perignon was unctious with ocietra, but would
have been bizarre with beluga, that would need the 2006. Is that
statement mad or not?
No idea, I've yet to try Dom Perignon, of any year! Wouldn't mind though.
Do you think it's actually worth the money, or is it emperor's new
clothes?

Wendy
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-18 16:52:08 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by W.A. Sawford
Post by W.A. Sawford
Of course it's personal opinion. I love red wine with a fish curry, so
long as its full bodied and can stand up to it. Someone else might hate
that. A sommelier might go for an aromatic white to please more people
more of the time, in a context such as Giusi's. I don't see what you are
getting so steamed up about frankly.
over precision, something to argue about, er, thats it.
Post by W.A. Sawford
Post by Mike.. . . .
I often accept wine flights with tasting menus and the sommelier in
the better places have sometimes modified the flight on the basis of
what I drank before, or on expressed preferences, so they clearly
didn't think the relationship was so precise.
What's a wine flight? Do you mean a wine tasting?
sommolier chooses a glass of wine for each course of a tasting menu,
which is usually 8+ courses.
Post by W.A. Sawford
Post by Mike.. . . .
By the way, the 2004 Dom Perignon was unctious with ocietra, but would
have been bizarre with beluga, that would need the 2006. Is that
statement mad or not?
No idea, I've yet to try Dom Perignon, of any year! Wouldn't mind though.
Do you think it's actually worth the money, or is it emperor's new
clothes?
The bad news is its very nice. The good news is the difference isnt
worth the money IMHO. (I did a blind tasting of sparkling wine once
and everybody more or less put them in price order). But if you find
one you like the style of around £30 you are more or less there, no
need to go higher. For "everyday" champagne I often get supermarket
own (a Waitrose customer described as "cooking champagne" when wanting
a case) or whatever is on offer. One point you might want to consider
is that the bigger than magnum bottles are *not* bottle conditioned.
If it helps we find ocietra better than beluga although its cheaper
(this was all special occasion treat, not everyday eating).
--
Mike... . . . .
W.A. Sawford
2014-02-19 11:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
sommolier chooses a glass of wine for each course of a tasting menu,
which is usually 8+ courses.
Ah, right. Would you say you've ever learnt something from a sommelier in
that context, or do you regard them all as a complete waste of space for
their insistence on 'precision' as you call it?
Post by Mike.. . . .
The bad news is its very nice. The good news is the difference isnt
worth the money IMHO. (I did a blind tasting of sparkling wine once
and everybody more or less put them in price order). But if you find
one you like the style of around £30 you are more or less there, no
need to go higher. For "everyday" champagne I often get supermarket
own (a Waitrose customer described as "cooking champagne" when wanting
a case) or whatever is on offer. One point you might want to consider
is that the bigger than magnum bottles are *not* bottle conditioned.
If it helps we find ocietra better than beluga although its cheaper
(this was all special occasion treat, not everyday eating).
Interesting re the Dom P. Just as well as I doubt I'll be running to it
anytime soon. Nicest champers we've ever had actually was a vintage 2002
Moet, think it was either last year or the year before. Gorgeous stuff!
Our usual for birthdays/New Year type of thing is red label Piper
Heidsieck, consistently good, and as you say, around the 30 quid bracket
or just under.

I think I've had lumpfish caviar, and it was very nice. Moules in a fennel
& tomato sauce with linguine tonight - happy day.

Wendy
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-19 11:51:27 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by W.A. Sawford
Post by W.A. Sawford
Post by Mike.. . . .
sommolier chooses a glass of wine for each course of a tasting menu,
which is usually 8+ courses.
Ah, right. Would you say you've ever learnt something from a sommelier in
that context, or do you regard them all as a complete waste of space for
their insistence on 'precision' as you call it?
I dont think they all insist on precision, in fact I've never known
one say just one wine goes with something. I would probably prefer to
not have them and £10 off the price of a restro bottle of wine. I find
it all rather surreal and overblown, unless you spend heavily, the
wines you are being educated about are in the local Tesco for a price
that isnt frightening and you can easily read about. Why do I need
some bloke pontificating? I remember one occasion a sommolier was
good, at Ramsay's Hospital Road, suggested a fruity german with the
foie gras, which was a good idea, but I had seen that idea elsewhere
about the same time.

(a fruity german *wine* would have been even better). sorry :-)

Its not as if most people dealing with a sommolier havent drunk wine
before. But I'm not that bothered about sommoliers in general, either
way, I just don't believe you can sensibly match wines to dishes with
such extreme precision. Something they dont try to do IME, they are
usualy more interested in moving you up the price bands.
Post by W.A. Sawford
Post by Mike.. . . .
The bad news is its very nice. The good news is the difference isnt
worth the money IMHO. (I did a blind tasting of sparkling wine once
and everybody more or less put them in price order). But if you find
one you like the style of around £30 you are more or less there, no
need to go higher. For "everyday" champagne I often get supermarket
own (a Waitrose customer described as "cooking champagne" when wanting
a case) or whatever is on offer. One point you might want to consider
is that the bigger than magnum bottles are *not* bottle conditioned.
If it helps we find ocietra better than beluga although its cheaper
(this was all special occasion treat, not everyday eating).
Interesting re the Dom P. Just as well as I doubt I'll be running to it
anytime soon. Nicest champers we've ever had actually was a vintage 2002
Moet, think it was either last year or the year before. Gorgeous stuff!
Our usual for birthdays/New Year type of thing is red label Piper
Heidsieck, consistently good, and as you say, around the 30 quid bracket
or just under.
yep, good enough for me.
Post by W.A. Sawford
I think I've had lumpfish caviar, and it was very nice.
then you might like "real" caviar even more, oilier & less salty, but
not enough more to justify the price hike, maybe for some special
occasion.Heres a little caviar story you may like. We were staying in
a grand casino/hotel and they provided cheap caviar and all the
trimmings for buffet brekkie (gambling makes the food cheap or free),
I calmly collected all the bits and pieces and got on with it. SWMBO
looked confused at my knowledge but copied me and asked me how I knew
what traditionally goes with caviar. Back in our room I showed her my
morning reading and it was Casino Royal, on the page where Bond eats
caviar in a smart casino hotel!!!!
Post by W.A. Sawford
Moules in a fennel
& tomato sauce with linguine tonight - happy day.
never done mussels with fennel
--
Mike... . . . .
Janet
2014-02-18 15:56:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by W.A. Sawford
Post by W.A. Sawford
Post by Mike.. . . .
Carol has very sensitive taste buds and can pick out what is in any
dish. How can there be just one wine for a dish? its ridiculous!
I took Giusi to mean that she was trying to find the best possible match
she can for a given dish. What's wrong with that?
At the level of *your* statement, not that much except it ignores
personal taste. If you go further down that road I think it gets
silly.
If the sommelier thinks young fruity red is best for lamb OK, but I
would have an older wine because I don't enjoy young fruity reds all
that much and anyway I think the strong flavour of lamb is better with
a heavy red. He likes young fruity with lamb, fine, he should drink
it. Do you have somebody to dictate what food you can eat with what?
Of course not, why do it with wine? Do restaurants have people
dictating what course matches other courses? Of course not, so let
people choose the wine they like.
But Giusi doesn't run a restaurant or bar so she can't offer a full
range winelist for her private dinner clients to choose from.

No doubt when she makes the booking and discusses what they would like
to eat (or don't like), she also asks what they like to drink (or don't
like) and discusses their budget ....then her sommelier takes all that
into consideration when making his suggestion.

Janet.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-18 16:56:35 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Janet
Post by Janet
But Giusi doesn't run a restaurant or bar so she can't offer a full
range winelist for her private dinner clients to choose from.
true
Post by Janet
No doubt when she makes the booking and discusses what they would like
to eat (or don't like), she also asks what they like to drink (or don't
like) and discusses their budget ....then her sommelier takes all that
into consideration when making his suggestion.
dunno, the point I disagree with is the degree of precision the
sommelier is claiming is possible.
--
Mike... . . . .
Giusi
2014-02-19 10:54:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Going to these extremes seems too much. Going as far as young fruity
red, OK, thats his opinion. Maybe it can be ojectively supported.
Going further down to individual estates is stretching the point too
far. Its not as if there is some precise relationship between the wine
and the lamb and lamb itself varies in taste a lot.
By the way, the 2004 Dom Perignon was unctious with ocietra, but would
have been bizarre with beluga, that would need the 2006. Is that
statement mad or not?
I have a better idea, lets have people who match your clothes to the
food, bocatini amatriciano - "red shirt sir, step this way". "Oysters?
I suggest more cleavage on show for the lady". Mad? Intrusive? Of
course.
--
Mike... . . . .
You can be delightfully silly. I do recommend wearing red with bucatini with anything red on it, or nude in the tub.

If a client knows a dish and prefers something else, that's great. It's normal, however, that the client doesn't know what a dish is going to taste like. An example is how very mild Italian lamb is compared to others. That was a disappointment for me at first. I am the cook and I know what it's going to taste like. My sommellier has to taste it to know. By the time the client is eating it, it's too late to run out and find the best. Alternately, sometimes a client tells me the wines they've bought and ask for a meal cooked to pair with them. Again, someone has to have a clue. It's quite different to home where you can make the same dish many times and try many different wines until you find one you love with it.

I have twice in my home cooked for treasured friends to live up to the most valuable wine I have ever owned. Same wine twice, two different dishes.

I don't think we are being hidebound, just trying to give people the very best we know. Client may not want to spend euro 250 per bottle, so my guy finds the best wine in his price range that suits the dish. Could be euro 10 per bottle.

Carol is a supertaster! I am, to a degree, but perhaps not as perfect as she.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-19 11:59:49 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
You can be delightfully silly. I do recommend wearing red with bucatini with anything red on it, or nude in the tub.
good idea, get tubs into a spaghetti restro, what a USP.
Post by Giusi
If a client knows a dish and prefers something else, that's great. It's normal, however, that the client doesn't know what a dish is going to taste like. An example is how very mild Italian lamb is compared to others. That was a disappointment for me at first. I am the cook and I know what it's going to taste like. My sommellier has to taste it to know. By the time the client is eating it, it's too late to run out and find the best. Alternately, sometimes a client tells me the wines they've bought and ask for a meal cooked to pair with them. Again, someone has to have a clue. It's quite different to home where you can make the same dish many times and try many different wines until you find one you love with it.
Italian lamb is mild, right. So I would have made the wrong choice
probably.
Post by Giusi
Again, someone has to have a clue. It's quite different to home where you can make the same dish many times and try many different wines until you find one you love with it.
True, but I find it can all go to far.
Post by Giusi
I have twice in my home cooked for treasured friends to live up to the most valuable wine I have ever owned. Same wine twice, two different dishes.
I had a freind who bought bankrupt cases of Chateau y'quem (66?) we
worked our way through it tell the bastard realized how much profit he
could realize and sold it.
Post by Giusi
I don't think we are being hidebound, just trying to give people the very best we know. Client may not want to spend euro 250 per bottle, so my guy finds the best wine in his price range that suits the dish. Could be euro 10 per bottle.
no problem with that
Post by Giusi
Carol is a supertaster! I am, to a degree, but perhaps not as perfect as she.
she is on the edge of that, the chef came out to talk to her at a
michelin *** when she spotted basil in the ratatouie (sorry, some
other dish but it was basil) I find my taste buds are declining with
age, either that or too much curry.
--
Mike... . . . .
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-19 12:37:41 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Mike.. . . .
Post by Mike.. . . .
when she spotted basil in the ratatouie
forget you are not Brit, spanish waiter has pet rat (named after owner
of hotel) that has escaped, do watch it all:-

--
Mike... . . . .
Giusi
2014-02-19 12:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Italian lamb is mild, right. So I would have made the wrong choice
probably.
The difference among US lamb, NZ lamb, Australian lamb and Italian lamb is almost like the difference between liver and foie gras. The taste is there, but it is like a message instead of the whole thing. I had to relearn cooking lamb.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-19 12:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
The difference among US lamb, NZ lamb, Australian lamb and Italian lamb is almost like the difference between liver and foie gras. The taste is there, but it is like a message instead of the whole thing. I had to relearn cooking lamb.
somebody should export herdwicke free range (mountains) wethers to
Italy or the ones from scottish isles that live on seaweed.
--
Mike... . . . .
S Viemeister
2014-02-19 13:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
The difference among US lamb, NZ lamb, Australian lamb and Italian lamb is almost like the difference between liver and foie gras. The taste is there, but it is like a message instead of the whole thing. I had to relearn cooking lamb.
somebody should export herdwicke free range (mountains) wethers to
Italy or the ones from scottish isles that live on seaweed.
You'd need to export the seaweed, too.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-19 14:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by S Viemeister
Post by S Viemeister
Post by Mike.. . . .
somebody should export herdwicke free range (mountains) wethers to
Italy or the ones from scottish isles that live on seaweed.
You'd need to export the seaweed, too.
OK, export the meat! Or better still send it all to London :-)
--
Mike... . . . .
W.A. Sawford
2014-02-19 15:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
I find my taste buds are declining with
age, either that or too much curry.
--
Mike... . . . .
Too much curry?! Impossible!

Wendy
John Silver
2014-02-19 23:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by W.A. Sawford
Post by Mike.. . . .
I find my taste buds are declining with
age, either that or too much curry.
--
Mike... . . . .
Too much curry?! Impossible!
Wendy
Is there actually a wine that can go with Curry?
John
graham
2014-02-20 01:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by W.A. Sawford
Post by Mike.. . . .
I find my taste buds are declining with
age, either that or too much curry.
--
Mike... . . . .
Too much curry?! Impossible!
Wendy
Is there actually a wine that can go with Curry?
I would NEVER waste a wine with curry. I have found that cider (or cyder) is
the best match.
Graham
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-20 09:26:51 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
Is there actually a wine that can go with Curry?
beer is best. No need to get Indian lager, full bodied British ale is
fine. to be at its best, you of course need your curry house in a pub,
which is happening more.

If I have wine, its house red. Works fine.
--
Mike... . . . .
W.A. Sawford
2014-02-20 09:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Is there actually a wine that can go with Curry?
John
Oh, lots, IMO. For hearty Indian tomato based curries with say, meat or
chicken, we find most of our favourite New World robust reds (eg Chilean
Cabernet or Carmenere, Argentinian Malbec etc) go lovely. For a more
delicate curry, maybe coconut milk based such as Thai with seafood or
vegies, then I'd probably go with an aromatic white. But, as always, we
also find the unexpected often works.

I'd say it's definitely worth experimenting with.

Wendy
W.A. Sawford
2014-02-19 15:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
I dont think they all insist on precision, in fact I've never known
one say just one wine goes with something. I would probably prefer to
not have them and =A310 off the price of a restro bottle of wine. I find
it all rather surreal and overblown, unless you spend heavily, the
wines you are being educated about are in the local Tesco for a price
that isnt frightening and you can easily read about. Why do I need
some bloke pontificating? I remember one occasion a sommolier was
good, at Ramsay's Hospital Road, suggested a fruity german with the
foie gras, which was a good idea, but I had seen that idea elsewhere
about the same time.
I know what you mean, personally I wouldn't fancy some bloke pontificating
either, plus I've got a fairly good idea what wine I'd like with what
food.
Post by Mike.. . . .
(a fruity german *wine* would have been even better). sorry :-)
:)
Post by Mike.. . . .
Post by W.A. Sawford
I think I've had lumpfish caviar, and it was very nice.
then you might like "real" caviar even more, oilier & less salty, but
not enough more to justify the price hike, maybe for some special
occasion.
Would certainly be up for trying it.

Heres a little caviar story you may like. We were staying in
Post by Mike.. . . .
a grand casino/hotel and they provided cheap caviar and all the
trimmings for buffet brekkie (gambling makes the food cheap or free),
I calmly collected all the bits and pieces and got on with it. SWMBO
looked confused at my knowledge but copied me and asked me how I knew
what traditionally goes with caviar. Back in our room I showed her my
morning reading and it was Casino Royal, on the page where Bond eats
caviar in a smart casino hotel!!!!
Uncannily convenient!
Post by Mike.. . . .
Post by W.A. Sawford
Moules in a fennel
& tomato sauce with linguine tonight - happy day.
never done mussels with fennel
It works very well in a tomato sauce. I crush about 1/3 tsp of seeds and
add to the onion when it's frying. Also add a chopped up fennel bulb. Some
garlic, thyme, and a hint of chilli, in with the toms and reduce it down a
fair way before adding mussels in shells. Tres yummy!

Wendy
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-19 15:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by W.A. Sawford
Post by W.A. Sawford
. Also add a chopped up fennel bulb. Some
garlic, thyme, and a hint of chilli, in with the toms and reduce it down a
fair way before adding mussels in shells. Tres yummy!
fennel is also good with bass
--
Mike... . . . .
Giusi
2014-02-19 10:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Sez the man who salts nothing. Do you realize that you do not taste what we taste?
Carol has very sensitive taste buds and can pick out what is in any
dish. How can there be just one wine for a dish? its ridiculous!
--
Mike... . . . .
There will always be many right, but usually one best. You usually don't find that one.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-18 14:08:19 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Sez the man who salts nothing.
Salt is controversial, chefs are wedded to it , sometimes in large
amounts. The NHS say it's bad for you and say gradually reduce how
much you use until you get used to it while food experts like McGee
say you need it.

Does your sommelier add salt to wine so he can taste it well? Neither
do we, so are we are at a disadvantage?

Do we salt desserts?

Salt suppresses bitterness, making things sweeter, like sugar. Both
get added in ladlefulls to processed food. Why not just get used to
bitter tastes? I stopped using either and its not a problem once used
to it.

Commercial food sometimes seems very salty, but I quite like the
occasional salty taste, so its not a problem. But do you want to be
adjusted to that taste all the time? We, after all, mostly eat too
much salt and sugar. I gave up sugar in tea because the tea club had
no sugar, within a week I was used to it and hate it now with sugar.
Then I did the same with salt.
--
Mike... . . . .
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-18 14:12:49 UTC
Permalink
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>

"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-18 23:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
John
Ophelia
2014-02-19 11:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely use
it but visitors often will.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-19 12:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Ophelia
Post by Ophelia
but the salt pot is on the table.
sometimes in Spain the waiter brings salt when he realizes you are
British.
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-19 23:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was
14.2. I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
John
Ophelia
2014-02-20 10:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was 14.2.
I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
I don't know what Nexium is, but I can guess:) We have a diabetic in this
house:)) The only thing I use sugar for is 1 teaspoon for my bread. I don't
think it ever gets used for anything else. I've had the same bag for years.
When the family were at home, I used to bake 3 times a week. Once for
bread, once for cakes and once for pastries. I never do any of that now and
haven't for some time. I used to miss it but not any more. I even have a
bread maker now!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-20 12:46:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was
14.2. I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
I don't know what Nexium is, but I can guess:) We have a diabetic in
this house:)) The only thing I use sugar for is 1 teaspoon for my
bread. I don't think it ever gets used for anything else. I've had the
same bag for years. When the family were at home, I used to bake 3
times a week. Once for bread, once for cakes and once for pastries. I
never do any of that now and haven't for some time. I used to miss it
but not any more. I even have a bread maker now!
Nexium is a proton Pump Inhibitor to reduce stomach acid.
We usually get enough sugar for our bread by taking a few sachets from
cafes where we have a coffee:-)
We had to buy some recently to make marmalade.
John
Ophelia
2014-02-20 16:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was
14.2. I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
I don't know what Nexium is, but I can guess:) We have a diabetic in
this house:)) The only thing I use sugar for is 1 teaspoon for my
bread. I don't think it ever gets used for anything else. I've had the
same bag for years. When the family were at home, I used to bake 3
times a week. Once for bread, once for cakes and once for pastries. I
never do any of that now and haven't for some time. I used to miss it
but not any more. I even have a bread maker now!
Nexium is a proton Pump Inhibitor to reduce stomach acid.
Understood!
Post by John Silver
We usually get enough sugar for our bread by taking a few sachets from
cafes where we have a coffee:-)
And you call Yorkshire folk tight ... ?
Post by John Silver
We had to buy some recently to make marmalade.
I say, that must have stretched the old sporran somewhat? ;-)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-20 18:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was
14.2. I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
I don't know what Nexium is, but I can guess:) We have a diabetic in
this house:)) The only thing I use sugar for is 1 teaspoon for my
bread. I don't think it ever gets used for anything else. I've had the
same bag for years. When the family were at home, I used to bake 3
times a week. Once for bread, once for cakes and once for pastries. I
never do any of that now and haven't for some time. I used to miss it
but not any more. I even have a bread maker now!
Nexium is a proton Pump Inhibitor to reduce stomach acid.
Understood!
Post by John Silver
We usually get enough sugar for our bread by taking a few sachets from
cafes where we have a coffee:-)
And you call Yorkshire folk tight ... ?
During the war ladies always carried an envelope to put any spare sugar in.
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
We had to buy some recently to make marmalade.
I say, that must have stretched the old sporran somewhat? ;-)
I never grudge spending on food or wine:-) Except for overpriced
restaurant food and wine. I often walk out when seeing wine and beer
prices that are not shown outside.
John
Ophelia
2014-02-20 19:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was
14.2. I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
I don't know what Nexium is, but I can guess:) We have a diabetic in
this house:)) The only thing I use sugar for is 1 teaspoon for my
bread. I don't think it ever gets used for anything else. I've had the
same bag for years. When the family were at home, I used to bake 3
times a week. Once for bread, once for cakes and once for pastries. I
never do any of that now and haven't for some time. I used to miss it
but not any more. I even have a bread maker now!
Nexium is a proton Pump Inhibitor to reduce stomach acid.
Understood!
Post by John Silver
We usually get enough sugar for our bread by taking a few sachets from
cafes where we have a coffee:-)
And you call Yorkshire folk tight ... ?
During the war ladies always carried an envelope to put any spare sugar in.
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
We had to buy some recently to make marmalade.
I say, that must have stretched the old sporran somewhat? ;-)
I never grudge spending on food or wine:-) Except for overpriced
restaurant food and wine. I often walk out when seeing wine and beer
prices that are not shown outside.
We would do that too!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-20 23:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was
14.2. I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
I don't know what Nexium is, but I can guess:) We have a diabetic in
this house:)) The only thing I use sugar for is 1 teaspoon for my
bread. I don't think it ever gets used for anything else. I've had the
same bag for years. When the family were at home, I used to bake 3
times a week. Once for bread, once for cakes and once for
pastries. I
never do any of that now and haven't for some time. I used to miss it
but not any more. I even have a bread maker now!
Nexium is a proton Pump Inhibitor to reduce stomach acid.
Understood!
Post by John Silver
We usually get enough sugar for our bread by taking a few sachets from
cafes where we have a coffee:-)
And you call Yorkshire folk tight ... ?
During the war ladies always carried an envelope to put any spare sugar in.
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
We had to buy some recently to make marmalade.
I say, that must have stretched the old sporran somewhat? ;-)
I never grudge spending on food or wine:-) Except for overpriced
restaurant food and wine. I often walk out when seeing wine and beer
prices that are not shown outside.
We would do that too!
Even on our wedding anniversary I walked out of two. One manager
followed me and said, We can negotiate.
John
Ophelia
2014-02-21 10:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or gradually over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was
14.2. I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
I don't know what Nexium is, but I can guess:) We have a diabetic in
this house:)) The only thing I use sugar for is 1 teaspoon for my
bread. I don't think it ever gets used for anything else. I've had the
same bag for years. When the family were at home, I used to bake 3
times a week. Once for bread, once for cakes and once for pastries. I
never do any of that now and haven't for some time. I used to miss it
but not any more. I even have a bread maker now!
Nexium is a proton Pump Inhibitor to reduce stomach acid.
Understood!
Post by John Silver
We usually get enough sugar for our bread by taking a few sachets from
cafes where we have a coffee:-)
And you call Yorkshire folk tight ... ?
During the war ladies always carried an envelope to put any spare sugar in.
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
We had to buy some recently to make marmalade.
I say, that must have stretched the old sporran somewhat? ;-)
I never grudge spending on food or wine:-) Except for overpriced
restaurant food and wine. I often walk out when seeing wine and beer
prices that are not shown outside.
We would do that too!
Even on our wedding anniversary I walked out of two. One manager followed
me and said, We can negotiate.
Did you?
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-21 12:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
<http://www.bcmj.org/council-health-promotion/kicking-salt-addiction>
"Lowering our intake of salt can be done immediately or
gradually
over
a period of a few weeks. Sodium is an acquired taste, so most people
will need to be weaned off it. It takes 6 to 12 weeks for our palates
to become accustomed to the reduction of salt in our food—and chances
are, if we then attempt to eat something salty, we probably won’t
enjoy it. Please see the Box for some suggestions for salt re­duction
that you can photocopy and pass on to patients."
We stopped using salt around 1983. The only salt we use is when baking
bread.
Pretty much the same here, but the salt pot is on the table. We rarely
use it but visitors often will.
We did the pretty much the same with sugar. Any recipe needing it gets
have the amount called for.
Once I had a blood test and my GP told me that my blood glucose was
14.2. I told him that I had been taking Manuka honey for my GERD.
http://www.manukaonline.com/acid-reflux-disease-Manuka-Honey-benefits.html
Now I take Nexium:-)
I don't know what Nexium is, but I can guess:) We have a diabetic in
this house:)) The only thing I use sugar for is 1 teaspoon for my
bread. I don't think it ever gets used for anything else. I've had the
same bag for years. When the family were at home, I used to bake 3
times a week. Once for bread, once for cakes and once for pastries. I
never do any of that now and haven't for some time. I used to miss it
but not any more. I even have a bread maker now!
Nexium is a proton Pump Inhibitor to reduce stomach acid.
Understood!
Post by John Silver
We usually get enough sugar for our bread by taking a few sachets from
cafes where we have a coffee:-)
And you call Yorkshire folk tight ... ?
During the war ladies always carried an envelope to put any spare sugar in.
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
We had to buy some recently to make marmalade.
I say, that must have stretched the old sporran somewhat? ;-)
I never grudge spending on food or wine:-) Except for overpriced
restaurant food and wine. I often walk out when seeing wine and beer
prices that are not shown outside.
We would do that too!
Even on our wedding anniversary I walked out of two. One manager
followed me and said, We can negotiate.
Did you?
No, we went to one we had been to a couple of times before. This was in
Tavira (Portugal)
We don't like salad and in America most set menus have it. We always ask
for soup instead. One waitress in NYC said that we could not do that so
we started to leave. The manageress came after us asking what the
problem was. I told her and she said that soup is cheaper than salad and
of course we could have it. We still left.
John
Ophelia
2014-02-21 14:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Even on our wedding anniversary I walked out of two. One manager
followed me and said, We can negotiate.
Did you?
No, we went to one we had been to a couple of times before. This was in
Tavira (Portugal)
Good for you.
Post by John Silver
We don't like salad and in America most set menus have it. We always ask
for soup instead. One waitress in NYC said that we could not do that so we
started to leave. The manageress came after us asking what the problem
was. I told her and she said that soup is cheaper than salad and of course
we could have it. We still left.
lol too right:))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
graham
2014-02-18 15:17:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
Sez the man who salts nothing.
Salt is controversial, chefs are wedded to it , sometimes in large
amounts. The NHS say it's bad for you and say gradually reduce how
much you use until you get used to it while food experts like McGee
say you need it.
I'm 100% with you on this one. I rarely use any but resto chefs use way too
much. I know that when I eat out, the following day my weight is far higher
than it should be, which I attribute to the excess salt causing water
retention.
Graham
Giusi
2014-02-17 11:49:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Giusi
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by graham
Post by graham
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
I and most Italians do not like to get pissed. We drink wine partly for tradition and partly because our food tends to demand it.
We are not delusional.
Why do your foods demand it???
John
I cannot imagine eating Umbrian food with Coca Cola, and most don't do well with beer, either. They simply taste better with wine. When I have worked hard to make a dish really fine, it breaks my heart if a diner doesn't want even a sip -- like my daughter. If there is an alcohol problem, okay, but otherwise, I think teetotalers never get the whole good from Italian food.
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-17 12:13:57 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Giusi
Post by Giusi
I cannot imagine eating Umbrian food with Coca Cola,
there I agree
Post by Giusi
and most don't do well with beer, either.
Italian beer, no doubt.
Post by Giusi
They simply taste better with wine. When I have worked hard to make a dish really fine, it breaks my heart if a diner doesn't want even a sip -- like my daughter. If there is an alcohol problem, okay, but otherwise, I think teetotalers never get the whole good from Italian food.
like most food, its not an Umbrian thing, this is absurd. And good
beer *does* work with food, whatever you think.
--
Mike... . . . .
Steve Slatcher
2014-02-16 18:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by graham
Post by graham
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
That self-deception malarky is bloody expensive for me too. Having been
enlightened I shall now stick to cheap Sherry.
--
www.winenous.co.uk
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-16 19:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Mike.. . . .
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
That self-deception malarky is bloody expensive for me too. Having been
enlightened I shall now stick to cheap Sherry.
1) alcohol and its effect
2) taste

I drank a v expensive bottle last night, not really worth the 4 x cost
of a normal bottle. But who chooses to drink booze they dislike the
taste of? You start from there and over time you have a huge wine
culture industry.

Its the same with food:-
1) fuel
2) taste

I eat it because it keeps you alive. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.

funnily enough nobody argues on that one, because they don't object to
accepting point (1) unlike for alcohol.
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-16 19:41:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by graham
Post by graham
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
That self-deception malarky is bloody expensive for me too. Having been
enlightened I shall now stick to cheap Sherry.
Does British Sherry still exist? I used to have a neighbour who worked
for Vine Products.
John
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-17 10:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
Post by Steve Slatcher
That self-deception malarky is bloody expensive for me too. Having been
enlightened I shall now stick to cheap Sherry.
Does British Sherry still exist? I used to have a neighbour who worked
for Vine Products.
stopped in 1996 when sherry got demarcation or whatever they call it.
Some years after Franco stopped marketing fake french wine.
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-18 23:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
Post by Steve Slatcher
That self-deception malarky is bloody expensive for me too. Having been
enlightened I shall now stick to cheap Sherry.
Does British Sherry still exist? I used to have a neighbour who worked
for Vine Products.
stopped in 1996 when sherry got demarcation or whatever they call it.
Some years after Franco stopped marketing fake french wine.
I don't like most Sherries. A neighbour once gave us a bottle. One day
my wife handed me a glass and I commented that it tasted better than
usual. She told me it was Tia Maria.
What does that say for my palate?
John
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-19 08:38:54 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
Post by Mike.. . . .
stopped in 1996 when sherry got demarcation or whatever they call it.
Some years after Franco stopped marketing fake french wine.
I don't like most Sherries. A neighbour once gave us a bottle. One day
my wife handed me a glass and I commented that it tasted better than
usual. She told me it was Tia Maria.
What does that say for my palate?
same as most people, we can taste what we expect and confuse things
quite readily when not concentrating.
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-22 16:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
Post by Steve Slatcher
That self-deception malarky is bloody expensive for me too. Having been
enlightened I shall now stick to cheap Sherry.
Does British Sherry still exist? I used to have a neighbour who worked
for Vine Products.
stopped in 1996 when sherry got demarcation or whatever they call it.
Some years after Franco stopped marketing fake french wine.
How did the Spaniards do that?
John

Steve Slatcher
2014-02-19 19:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Does British Sherry still exist?
You can still get the stuff that used to be called British Sherry. It
is now called British Fortifed Wine.
--
www.winenous.co.uk
John Silver
2014-02-20 00:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by John Silver
Does British Sherry still exist?
You can still get the stuff that used to be called British Sherry. It
is now called British Fortifed Wine.
Is the name protected or do the Cypriots still produce their Sherry?
We went to Jerez once for the Feria de Caballo and visited as many
Sherry producers as possible but I prefer the Port Wine warehouses of
Oporto.
John
Steve Slatcher
2014-02-20 00:40:10 UTC
Permalink
On 20/02/2014 00:02, John Silver wrote:> On 19/02/2014 19:10, Steve
Post by John Silver
Post by Steve Slatcher
Post by John Silver
Does British Sherry still exist?
You can still get the stuff that used to be called British Sherry. It
is now called British Fortifed Wine.
Is the name protected or do the Cypriots still produce their Sherry?
We went to Jerez once for the Feria de Caballo and visited as many
Sherry producers as possible but I prefer the Port Wine warehouses of
Oporto.
The name Sherry is very much protected.

Cypriot Sherry is like British Sherry - the drink is still available but
cannot be called Sherry. You wonder why they bother when the real stuff
is such good value at all levels of quality. I suppose the market is
very price-sensitive at the lower end.
--
www.winenous.co.uk
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-20 09:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
We went to Jerez once for the Feria de Caballo and visited as many
Sherry producers as possible
try Sanlucar de Barrameda, home of manzanilla, the salty dry (not)
sherry. The happiest town in Spain. We only did one tour, the guide
didint turn up and the spaniards did some impromtu flamenco and we all
went home. Perfect. More time for lunch at the "bottom of the map" on
"the coast of light". Just round the back through Bonanza (ludicrously
(desciribed as a "city" in one of those travel pieces written by
somebody who never went) and you are on the dirt roads of the Coto
Donaña unrestricted area, just dont be in a sportscar if it rains,
only an idiot would take a Merc Coupe there in the wet, any such a
fool would have to push it for three hours, falllig into the mud when
it moved forward, what sort of idiot would do that?

"When I tell people about Sanlucar I say tourists just aren't catered
for, and anyway, there's nothing to really do or see. I tell them its
unglamorous and unkempt, windswept and threadbare. I say there's
screaming kids everywhere and the locals just sit around for hours.
Then, if they realise that those are its good points, well I figure,
they are ready to sit in a square just away from the Atlantic waves
and revel in this near perfect place" Robert Elms - Travelog.
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-20 12:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver
Post by John Silver
We went to Jerez once for the Feria de Caballo and visited as many
Sherry producers as possible
try Sanlucar de Barrameda, home of manzanilla, the salty dry (not)
sherry. The happiest town in Spain. We only did one tour, the guide
didint turn up and the spaniards did some impromtu flamenco and we all
went home. Perfect. More time for lunch at the "bottom of the map" on
"the coast of light". Just round the back through Bonanza (ludicrously
(desciribed as a "city" in one of those travel pieces written by
somebody who never went) and you are on the dirt roads of the Coto
Donaña unrestricted area, just dont be in a sportscar if it rains,
only an idiot would take a Merc Coupe there in the wet, any such a
fool would have to push it for three hours, falllig into the mud when
it moved forward, what sort of idiot would do that?
The rain in Spain......................
John
graham
2014-02-18 18:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by graham
Post by graham
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
--
Self deception or not, occasionally a wine-food coupling will give you a
memorable experience. It happened a couple of years ago when I opened a
potentially good claret to serve with grilled lamb chops when a friend was
visiting. On opening, it tasted thin and acidic and I thought that I would
have to open another bottle. With the chops, an hour later, it was superb.
Then we finished off the last of it with some 5yr old cheddar and the
flavours of both just "exploded" in the mouth.
I know the old adage: "Buy on fruit but sell on cheese" but in this instance
the wine and cheese brought out something in each other and we both look
back on that experience.
Graham
Mike.. . . .
2014-02-18 19:08:06 UTC
Permalink
Following a post by graham
Post by graham
Post by Mike.. . . .
LOL I enjoy it because it makes you pissed. Secondly for taste. People
who say otherwise are practicing self deception.
--
Self deception or not, occasionally a wine-food coupling will give you a
memorable experience.
of course, but its not the primary reason, its the secondary reason
wine exists.
Post by graham
It happened a couple of years ago when I opened a
potentially good claret to serve with grilled lamb chops when a friend was
visiting. On opening, it tasted thin and acidic and I thought that I would
have to open another bottle. With the chops, an hour later, it was superb.
Yes, red wine is usually better ith food, I would never deny that
Post by graham
Then we finished off the last of it with some 5yr old cheddar and the
flavours of both just "exploded" in the mouth.
I know the old adage: "Buy on fruit but sell on cheese" but in this instance
the wine and cheese brought out something in each other and we both look
back on that experience.
Again, agreed, I merely deny the application of extreme precision to
the pairing. I had a bottle of top flight sauturnes with a pudding I
now forget, it worked beautiflly, but a similar quality different
pudding wine could have been substitued or the pud a bit different, it
would have also worked, been slightly different but still valid and
appropriate. There isnt one answer!
--
Mike... . . . .
John Silver
2014-02-16 19:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
John
Ophelia
2014-02-16 21:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-16 22:52:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the
exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
John
Ophelia
2014-02-16 22:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-18 23:40:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for being
a Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
John
Ophelia
2014-02-19 11:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for being a
Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-20 00:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for
being a Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
John
graham
2014-02-20 01:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for
being a Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
John
I once had a boss with a Yorkshire surname but who was born in Scotland. His
parsimony was legendary!
Graham
Phil Cook
2014-02-20 05:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
I once had a boss with a Yorkshire surname but who was born in Scotland. His
parsimony was legendary!
It is actually said that a Yorkshireman is like a Scotsman with every
ounce of generosity wrung out of him.

It is also said that you can always tell a Yorkshireman, but you can't
tell him much!
--
Phil Cook
Ophelia
2014-02-20 10:38:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Cook
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
I once had a boss with a Yorkshire surname but who was born in Scotland. His
parsimony was legendary!
It is actually said that a Yorkshireman is like a Scotsman with every
ounce of generosity wrung out of him.
It is also said that you can always tell a Yorkshireman, but you can't
tell him much!
Too right pal, so watch it!
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-20 08:44:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for
being a Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
John
I once had a boss with a Yorkshire surname but who was born in Scotland. His
parsimony was legendary!
Graham
In Canada around Hudson Bay the Indians have a mixture of French,
Scottish and Yorkshire names.
John
Ophelia
2014-02-20 10:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information
except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for
being a Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
John
I once had a boss with a Yorkshire surname but who was born in Scotland.
His parsimony was legendary!
lol
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
John Silver
2014-02-20 13:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information
except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed
with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for
being a Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
John
I once had a boss with a Yorkshire surname but who was born in
Scotland. His parsimony was legendary!
lol
You had to leave to get a pay rise?
John
Ophelia
2014-02-20 16:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information
except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed
with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the
exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for
being a Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
John
I once had a boss with a Yorkshire surname but who was born in
Scotland. His parsimony was legendary!
lol
You had to leave to get a pay rise?
You may say that but I could not possibly comment ;-)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Ophelia
2014-02-20 10:37:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by Ophelia
Post by John Silver
Post by graham
Post by John Silver
Is there any way of finding the wines with the highest flavonoids.
Food Unwrapped had a feature on it without giving much information except
for a recommendation for Nebbiolo made by De Forville.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12074969
John
The term "orthorexia" has been coined for people who are obsessed with the
therapeutic/medicinal properties of the food they eat to the exclusion of
enjoying it as food.
Perhaps "orthoholics" are those that treat wine as medicine.
Graham
Name a more palatable medicine:-)
G&T? ;-)
Are you a Scot?? I thought that they drank Vodka:-)
G&T fer me, pal:)) ah'm posh ye see <g>
When I lived in Scotland in the 60's I was regarded as strange for
being a Lager and Vodka drinker. I think I started a trend.
Might have:) Oh btw I am not a Scot, I am a Yorkshire transplant:)
It is said that Tykes are as tight as us Scots.
Ya think?? ;-)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
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