Britain's big grocers are on the run

[graham]

Interesting article in the Guardian. From what I can see, we lag behind by a
few years but competition is so fierce now that the major chains are
demanding price cuts from their suppliers. Walmart is now entering the
business here after 20 years of their Woolworth-type operations and a major
drug stor chain (think Boots equiv.) is now selling food and general
groceries.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/19/britain-shoppers-hungry-change-big-grocery

Graham

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by graham

Post by graham
Interesting article in the Guardian. From what I can see, we lag behind by a
few years but competition is so fierce now that the major chains are
demanding price cuts from their suppliers. Walmart is now entering the
business here after 20 years of their Woolworth-type operations and a major
drug stor chain (think Boots equiv.) is now selling food and general
groceries.

all the mid market supermarkets have profits down or losses. High end
Waitrose are doing well as are the bottom end Lidl type places, this
probably reflects the two britains, bankers, accountants and lawyers
doing well, everybody else doing badly, including other professionals.

We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

[Saxman]

Post by Mike.. . . .
all the mid market supermarkets have profits down or losses. High end
Waitrose are doing well as are the bottom end Lidl type places, this
probably reflects the two britains, bankers, accountants and lawyers
doing well, everybody else doing badly, including other professionals.
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

You are right about the 'two Britains'. I've wondered how the two
opposites in the food chain can attract.

The Aldi/Lidl bandwagon has now caught up with Sainsburys.

The big supermarkets have been ripping everybody off for years and now
they want price cuts?

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Saxman

Post by Saxman
The big supermarkets have been ripping everybody off for years and now
they want price cuts?

Have they? They do rip off the suppliers. Tescos are 70% down IIRC.

[Janet]

Post by Saxman
The big supermarkets have been ripping everybody off for years

????? Oldfashioned butchers, bakers and greengrocers generally charge
higher prices than supermarkets.

How are supermarkets ripping off their customers by charging less,
offering loss leaders etc?

Janet.

[Saxman]

Post by Janet
How are supermarkets ripping off their customers by charging less,
offering loss leaders etc?

How is the Lidl & Aldi market share going up when they charge less for
their goods? If you like going to the large supermarkets, then so be it.

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Saxman

Post by Saxman
How is the Lidl & Aldi market share going up when they charge less for
their goods?

that's the wrong question. They are low margin, no frills places.
That's why they are cheaper. People are going there because they can
no longer afford the frills, quality or choice of the mid range
places, or people are going there because they don't care about
frills, choice and quality. Unless you are in the small % doing well
who go to Waitrose.

[John Silver]

Post by Saxman

Post by Janet
How are supermarkets ripping off their customers by charging less,
offering loss leaders etc?

How is the Lidl & Aldi market share going up when they charge less for
their goods? If you like going to the large supermarkets, then so be it.

You may not like it but the bigger ones have a wider selection in each
section.
John

[Saxman]

Post by John Silver

Post by Saxman

Post by Janet
How are supermarkets ripping off their customers by charging less,
offering loss leaders etc?

How is the Lidl & Aldi market share going up when they charge less for
their goods? If you like going to the large supermarkets, then so be it.

You may not like it but the bigger ones have a wider selection in each
section.

Agreed about selection, but a lot of people have got into the Aldi
habit. Making do with what Aldi have. If one shops at Aldi for a year
one can buy more or less what they need anyway.

Once people have got into new habits, it's hard for them to change. The
large supermarkets need to work hard to woo them back.

[John Silver]

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by graham

Post by graham
Interesting article in the Guardian. From what I can see, we lag behind by a
few years but competition is so fierce now that the major chains are
demanding price cuts from their suppliers. Walmart is now entering the
business here after 20 years of their Woolworth-type operations and a major
drug stor chain (think Boots equiv.) is now selling food and general
groceries.

all the mid market supermarkets have profits down or losses. High end
Waitrose are doing well as are the bottom end Lidl type places, this
probably reflects the two britains, bankers, accountants and lawyers
doing well, everybody else doing badly, including other professionals.
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Would it be allowed? Morrison had to rid themselves of stores after they
took over Safeway. Waitrose bought quite a few of them.
John

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by John Silver

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Would it be allowed? Morrison had to rid themselves of stores after they
took over Safeway. Waitrose bought quite a few of them.

If they cannot all make a profit the sector must contract, That would
not mean another mid range supermarket buying the stores, which might
not be allowed, rather closures like Waitrose Dartford. Just gone.

[John Silver]

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Would it be allowed? Morrison had to rid themselves of stores after they
took over Safeway. Waitrose bought quite a few of them.

If they cannot all make a profit the sector must contract, That would
not mean another mid range supermarket buying the stores, which might
not be allowed, rather closures like Waitrose Dartford. Just gone.

There are far to many and the situation is being worsened by them all
opening more convenience type stores.
One road near us has two Tesco's, a Metro type store and an Express
competing with a Co-Op and a Sainsbury's Local and a Tesco Extra about
half a mile away.

[graham]

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Would it be allowed? Morrison had to rid themselves of stores after they
took over Safeway. Waitrose bought quite a few of them.

If they cannot all make a profit the sector must contract, That would
not mean another mid range supermarket buying the stores, which might
not be allowed, rather closures like Waitrose Dartford. Just gone.

There are far to many and the situation is being worsened by them all
opening more convenience type stores.
One road near us has two Tesco's, a Metro type store and an Express
competing with a Co-Op and a Sainsbury's Local and a Tesco Extra about
half a mile away.

On the news tonight it seems that Walmart in Canada is now opening some of
those express-type, food-to-go stores.
Graham

[John Silver]

Post by graham

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Would it be allowed? Morrison had to rid themselves of stores after they
took over Safeway. Waitrose bought quite a few of them.

If they cannot all make a profit the sector must contract, That would
not mean another mid range supermarket buying the stores, which might
not be allowed, rather closures like Waitrose Dartford. Just gone.

There are far to many and the situation is being worsened by them all
opening more convenience type stores.
One road near us has two Tesco's, a Metro type store and an Express
competing with a Co-Op and a Sainsbury's Local and a Tesco Extra about
half a mile away.

On the news tonight it seems that Walmart in Canada is now opening some of
those express-type, food-to-go stores.
Graham

They didn't work for Tesco in America.
John

[graham]

Post by John Silver

Post by graham

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Would it be allowed? Morrison had to rid themselves of stores after they
took over Safeway. Waitrose bought quite a few of them.

If they cannot all make a profit the sector must contract, That would
not mean another mid range supermarket buying the stores, which might
not be allowed, rather closures like Waitrose Dartford. Just gone.

There are far to many and the situation is being worsened by them all
opening more convenience type stores.
One road near us has two Tesco's, a Metro type store and an Express
competing with a Co-Op and a Sainsbury's Local and a Tesco Extra about
half a mile away.

On the news tonight it seems that Walmart in Canada is now opening some of
those express-type, food-to-go stores.
Graham

They didn't work for Tesco in America.
John

Tesco probably didn't understand the N.American marketplace. Walmart does!
Graham

[John Silver]

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by graham

Post by graham
Interesting article in the Guardian. From what I can see, we lag behind by a
few years but competition is so fierce now that the major chains are
demanding price cuts from their suppliers. Walmart is now entering the
business here after 20 years of their Woolworth-type operations and a major
drug stor chain (think Boots equiv.) is now selling food and general
groceries.

all the mid market supermarkets have profits down or losses. High end
Waitrose are doing well as are the bottom end Lidl type places, this
probably reflects the two britains, bankers, accountants and lawyers
doing well, everybody else doing badly, including other professionals.
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Lidl advertised for Saturday and Sunday a special offer of four cans of
Branston baked beans for 95p. At 11.30am they were sold out.
John

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
bankers, accountants and lawyers

Post by Mike.. . . .
doing well, everybody else doing badly, including other professionals.

correction, i implied bankers were professionals there

Post by Mike.. . . .

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Lidl advertised for Saturday and Sunday a special offer of four cans of
Branston baked beans for 95p. At 11.30am they were sold out.

Ocado had a similar offer, i forget the price

[Malcolm Loades]

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
bankers, accountants and lawyers

Post by Mike.. . . .
doing well, everybody else doing badly, including other professionals.

correction, i implied bankers were professionals there

Post by Mike.. . . .

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Lidl advertised for Saturday and Sunday a special offer of four cans of
Branston baked beans for 95p. At 11.30am they were sold out.

Ocado had a similar offer, i forget the price

£1.25 I remember because I bought several ... the only tinned baked
beans worth eating IMHO.

Malcolm

[John Silver]

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
bankers, accountants and lawyers

Post by Mike.. . . .
doing well, everybody else doing badly, including other professionals.

correction, i implied bankers were professionals there

Post by Mike.. . . .

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Lidl advertised for Saturday and Sunday a special offer of four cans of
Branston baked beans for 95p. At 11.30am they were sold out.

Ocado had a similar offer, i forget the price

I went into Waitrose today today to get a 3 for 2 on already reduced
Bonne Maman strawberry jam. They only had one jar of it left but plenty
of the other varieties.
Online the 750 gr jar was even better value but the shops evidently
stock it.
John

[John Silver]

Post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by John Silver

Post by Mike.. . . .
bankers, accountants and lawyers

Post by Mike.. . . .
doing well, everybody else doing badly, including other professionals.

correction, i implied bankers were professionals there

Post by Mike.. . . .

Post by Mike.. . . .
We will probably see a merger with stores dissapearing. Morrisons
first, my guess.

Lidl advertised for Saturday and Sunday a special offer of four cans of
Branston baked beans for 95p. At 11.30am they were sold out.

Ocado had a similar offer, i forget the price

I went into Waitrose today today to get a 3 for 2 on already reduced
Bonne Maman strawberry jam. They only had one jar of it left but plenty
of the other varieties.
Online the 750 gr jar was even better value but the shops evidently
stock it.
John

Today Waitrose had it in stock again and still on a 3 for 2 offer but
they had increased the price of the strawberry by 30p and let the others
at the same price.
If it sells, charge more?
John

[Saxman]

Post by John Silver
Lidl advertised for Saturday and Sunday a special offer of four cans of
Branston baked beans for 95p. At 11.30am they were sold out.

5p cheaper than I've ever seen them in ASDA.

[Janet]

Post by graham
Interesting article in the Guardian. From what I can see, we lag behind by a
few years but competition is so fierce now that the major chains are
demanding price cuts from their suppliers. Walmart is now entering the
business here after 20 years of their Woolworth-type operations and a major
drug stor chain (think Boots equiv.) is now selling food and general
groceries.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/19/britain-shoppers-hungry-change-big-grocery
Graham

I was surprised at the comment

"Situated in central locations, Aldi and Lidl have demonstrated that
out-of-town superstores on retail parks aren't actually convenient,
either"

as none of the LIDL/ALDI's I know are located on the high st, or any
more conveniently than retail park smkts. They certainly are cheap but
a lot of their non-food lines are in the same (rock bottom) quality
league as Poundshop, far lower than the other smkts.

Walmart trades as ASDA in the UK and is one of the Big Four smkts
here.. there's nothing "Woolworth-style" about their UK operation.

Janet.

[Mike.. . . .]

Following a post by Janet

Post by Janet
"Situated in central locations, Aldi and Lidl have demonstrated that
out-of-town superstores on retail parks aren't actually convenient,
either"
as none of the LIDL/ALDI's I know are located on the high st, or any
more conveniently than retail park smkts.

our local one is on the fringe of a high street, too far to walk from
the High Street, assuming you go to any high streets anymore.

[graham]

Post by Janet

Post by graham
Interesting article in the Guardian. From what I can see, we lag behind by a
few years but competition is so fierce now that the major chains are
demanding price cuts from their suppliers. Walmart is now entering the
business here after 20 years of their Woolworth-type operations and a major
drug stor chain (think Boots equiv.) is now selling food and general
groceries.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/19/britain-shoppers-hungry-change-big-grocery
Graham

I was surprised at the comment
"Situated in central locations, Aldi and Lidl have demonstrated that
out-of-town superstores on retail parks aren't actually convenient,
either"
as none of the LIDL/ALDI's I know are located on the high st, or any
more conveniently than retail park smkts. They certainly are cheap but
a lot of their non-food lines are in the same (rock bottom) quality
league as Poundshop, far lower than the other smkts.
Walmart trades as ASDA in the UK and is one of the Big Four smkts
here.. there's nothing "Woolworth-style" about their UK operation.

They appeared in Canada by taking over Woolco stores accross the country and
there was little difference in their target market or type of merchandise.
They did not sell groceries apart from a few canned items.
After a few years they caused a bit of a stir by opening gas stations at
some of their stores selling petrol at a somewhat lower price. It is only
recently that they have expanded their grocery operation but it's still in
their dry goods stores and not as a separate operation. In the UK, they
bought ASDA so started as a s/m chain rather than a Woolco chain.
Graham

[John Silver]

Post by Janet

Post by graham
Interesting article in the Guardian. From what I can see, we lag behind by a
few years but competition is so fierce now that the major chains are
demanding price cuts from their suppliers. Walmart is now entering the
business here after 20 years of their Woolworth-type operations and a major
drug stor chain (think Boots equiv.) is now selling food and general
groceries.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/19/britain-shoppers-hungry-change-big-grocery
Graham

I was surprised at the comment
"Situated in central locations, Aldi and Lidl have demonstrated that
out-of-town superstores on retail parks aren't actually convenient,
either"
as none of the LIDL/ALDI's I know are located on the high st, or any
more conveniently than retail park smkts. They certainly are cheap but
a lot of their non-food lines are in the same (rock bottom) quality
league as Poundshop, far lower than the other smkts.
Walmart trades as ASDA in the UK and is one of the Big Four smkts
here.. there's nothing "Woolworth-style" about their UK operation.
Janet.

Walmart are not primarily grocers n the US. Their sales are mainly in
non food items
John

[Malcolm Loades]

The Song Against Grocers

G.K. Chesterton


(From "The Flying Inn", 1914)

God made the wicked Grocer
For a mystery and a sign,
That men might shun the awful shops
And go to inns to dine;
Where the bacon's on the rafter
And the wine is in the wood,
And God that made good laughter
Has seen that they are good.

The evil-hearted Grocer
Would call his mother "Ma'am,"
And bow at her and bob at her,
Her aged soul to damn,
And rub his horrid hands and ask
What article was next
Though MORTIS IN ARTICULO
Should be her proper text.

His props are not his children,
But pert lads underpaid,
Who call out "Cash!" and bang about
To work his wicked trade;
He keeps a lady in a cage
Most cruelly all day,
And makes her count and calls her "Miss"
Until she fades away.

The righteous minds of innkeepers
Induce them now and then
To crack a bottle with a friend
Or treat unmoneyed men,
But who hath seen the Grocer
Treat housemaids to his teas
Or crack a bottle of fish sauce
Or stand a man a cheese?

He sells us sands of Araby
As sugar for cash down;
He sweeps his shop and sells the dust
The purest salt in town,
He crams with cans of poisoned meat
Poor subjects of the King,
And when they die by thousands
Why, he laughs like anything.

The wicked Grocer groces
In spirits and in wine,
Not frankly and in fellowship
As men in inns do dine;
But packed with soap and sardines
And carried off by grooms,
For to be snatched by Duchesses
And drunk in dressing-rooms.

The hell-instructed Grocer
Has a temple made of tin,
And the ruin of good innkeepers
Is loudly urged therein;
But now the sands are running out
From sugar of a sort,
The Grocer trembles; for his time,
Just like his weight, is short.

Malcolm

[Ophelia]

Post by Malcolm Loades
The Song Against Grocers
G.K. Chesterton
(From "The Flying Inn", 1914)
God made the wicked Grocer
For a mystery and a sign,
That men might shun the awful shops
And go to inns to dine;
Where the bacon's on the rafter
And the wine is in the wood,
And God that made good laughter
Has seen that they are good.
The evil-hearted Grocer
Would call his mother "Ma'am,"
And bow at her and bob at her,
Her aged soul to damn,
And rub his horrid hands and ask
What article was next
Though MORTIS IN ARTICULO
Should be her proper text.
His props are not his children,
But pert lads underpaid,
Who call out "Cash!" and bang about
To work his wicked trade;
He keeps a lady in a cage
Most cruelly all day,
And makes her count and calls her "Miss"
Until she fades away.
The righteous minds of innkeepers
Induce them now and then
To crack a bottle with a friend
Or treat unmoneyed men,
But who hath seen the Grocer
Treat housemaids to his teas
Or crack a bottle of fish sauce
Or stand a man a cheese?
He sells us sands of Araby
As sugar for cash down;
He sweeps his shop and sells the dust
The purest salt in town,
He crams with cans of poisoned meat
Poor subjects of the King,
And when they die by thousands
Why, he laughs like anything.
The wicked Grocer groces
In spirits and in wine,
Not frankly and in fellowship
As men in inns do dine;
But packed with soap and sardines
And carried off by grooms,
For to be snatched by Duchesses
And drunk in dressing-rooms.
The hell-instructed Grocer
Has a temple made of tin,
And the ruin of good innkeepers
Is loudly urged therein;
But now the sands are running out
From sugar of a sort,
The Grocer trembles; for his time,
Just like his weight, is short.
Malcolm

Brilliant, thanks:))))