Bleaahh chicken

Post by Martin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
Read the label carefully before buying.

What on earth makes you think anyone here would buy?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Martin

2013-12-07 12:15:38 UTC

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:06:19 +0000, RustyHinge

Post by Martin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
Read the label carefully before buying.

What on earth makes you think anyone here would buy?

Somebody must be buying it.

It comes to something when the home of water injected/massaged food clamps down
on it and the UK FSA makes excuses for the producers. The FSA represents the
producers and not the consumers nowadays.

The Dutch clamp down could have been the result of a mass boycott by consumers,
hospitals etc. of watery chicken in NL. I wonder if watery Dutch bacon is a
thing of the past too.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

RustyHinge

2013-12-07 12:11:20 UTC

Post by Martin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
Read the label carefully before buying.

Oh, and despite some bacon being labelled 'dry cured' it has often been
pumped full of crud - 'tis said it's phosphates and water, while others
aver it's milk by-products.

Anyways: cook it slowly with a lid on the pan nd you get lots of water
as well as white gunge oozing outof your rashers.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Martin

2013-12-07 12:29:11 UTC

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:11:20 +0000, RustyHinge

Post by Martin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
Read the label carefully before buying.

Oh, and despite some bacon being labelled 'dry cured' it has often been
pumped full of crud - 'tis said it's phosphates and water, while others
aver it's milk by-products.
Anyways: cook it slowly with a lid on the pan nd you get lots of water
as well as white gunge oozing outof your rashers.

Our local Dutch bacon factory is aware that discerning British consumers know
that Dutch bacon can be anything up to 30% water and added chemicals. They blame
this on the reason that sales dropped dramatically after negative publicity on
UK TV consumer programmes and almost made the company bankrupt. The Dutch and
Danes don't eat the sort of bacon exported to UK.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

RustyHinge

2013-12-07 14:32:47 UTC

Post by Martin
Our local Dutch bacon factory is aware that discerning British consumers know
that Dutch bacon can be anything up to 30% water and added chemicals. They blame
this on the reason that sales dropped dramatically after negative publicity on
UK TV consumer programmes and almost made the company bankrupt. The Dutch and
Danes don't eat the sort of bacon exported to UK.

Nor do I - and our nearby butcher-with-a-smokehouse has retired.

Boo Hiss Rotten swizz.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Janet

2013-12-07 17:22:55 UTC

Post by Martin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
Read the label carefully before buying.

They are talking about a process used in frozen imported chicken.

I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

Janet.

Martin

2013-12-07 21:42:54 UTC

Post by Martin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
Read the label carefully before buying.

They are talking about a process used in frozen imported chicken.

"One large poultry processor in the UK, Westbridge Food Group, is importing raw
frozen Brazilian chicken to which salt or a mix of corn oil and salt has already
been added, then "tumbling" it with water and water-binding additives.
The meat is then repacked for sale as frozen chicken breast fillets in leading
supermarkets. Asda, Aldi and Iceland all sell frozen Brazilian chicken tumbled
this way by Westbridge as part of their own-label discount ranges.

Sainsbury's also sells frozen chicken from the same factory with added water
under a brand name but not as its own label.
"

I read it to mean that the tumblimng process is done in UK in this case and in
the importing country in general.

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

We don't buy frozen chicken either. It's often hard to know exactly what the
origin is.

Post by Janet
Janet.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

Janet

2013-12-08 12:55:30 UTC

Post by Martin

Post by Martin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
Read the label carefully before buying.

They are talking about a process used in frozen imported chicken.

SMKT "own label" raw meat must name any country of origin that's
outsie the EU. So long as it names Brazil as the place the Brazillion
chicken came from, they have not committed an offence.

Post by Martin
Sainsbury's also sells frozen chicken from the same factory with added water
under a brand name ? but not as its own label.
"
I read it to mean that the tumblimng process is done in UK in this case and in
the importing country in general.

It clearly says above, the chicken is

a) frozen raw then imported from Brazil
b) sold in the UK smkts as raw, frozen chicken.

It may be sold under SMKTS own label, but there has been no
suggestion that any UK smkt has broken the requirement to name Brazil as
"country of origin" on the label of raw frozen meat.

the same article says

"It is not illegal to sell chicken with added water so long as it is
declared.<....>The cheap ranges of frozen chicken on sale in the UK do
declare the added water, as well as additives such as phosphates
incorporated to stop the water from flooding out during cooking and
dextrose, a sugar added to mask the saltiness of the raw material."

Post by Martin

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

We don't buy frozen chicken either. It's often hard to know exactly what the
origin is.

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/countryoriginlabellin
gscot.pdf

page 13 (raw meats)

"Chicken,turkey and other poultry which has been imported from a non
EU country (eg Thailand) has to show the country of origin . This does
not apply to cooked poultry or proceded dishes such as chicken Kiev"

same applies in EU

http://ec.europa.eu/governance/impact/planned_ia/docs/2013_agri_019
_origin_labelling_unprocessed_meat_en.pdf

"Currently mandatory rules on o
rigin labelling exist for several sectors, such as beef, fruit and
vegetables,
bananas, olive oil, wine, eggs, imported poultry, honey and hops. In
particular for beef, the EU legislation
requires the indication of the country of birth, fattening and slaug
hter or the indication of one origin where all
three above mentioned stages of the life ofthe
animal took place in one country.

For other types of meat
(including the ones under the remit of this impact assessment)
, labelling of origin can currently be applied on a voluntary basis
, except for imported poultry meat where origin must be indicated
. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Janet.

Martin

2013-12-09 15:15:19 UTC

Post by Martin
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
Read the label carefully before buying.

They are talking about a process used in frozen imported chicken.

SMKT "own label" raw meat must name any country of origin that's
outsie the EU. So long as it names Brazil as the place the Brazillion
chicken came from, they have not committed an offence.

Adding water is apparently against EU rules.

It clearly says above, the chicken is
a) frozen raw then imported from Brazil
b) sold in the UK smkts as raw, frozen chicken.

It clearly says that the chicken is tumbled by "One large poultry processor in
the UK, Westbridge Food Group ... then "tumbling" it with water and
water-binding additives."
Nobody wastes money on importing water, when it can be and is done at the
destination. The Dutch are cracking down on the Dutch equivalent of
the Westbridge Food Group, not some anonymous Brazilian food producer.

Post by Janet
It may be sold under SMKTS own label, but there has been no
suggestion that any UK smkt has broken the requirement to name Brazil as
"country of origin" on the label of raw frozen meat.
the same article says
"It is not illegal to sell chicken with added water so long as it is
declared.<....>The cheap ranges of frozen chicken on sale in the UK do
declare the added water, as well as additives such as phosphates
incorporated to stop the water from flooding out during cooking and
dextrose, a sugar added to mask the saltiness of the raw material."

That's the UK interpretation.

Post by Martin

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

We don't buy frozen chicken either. It's often hard to know exactly what the
origin is.

Chicken fillets are sold unpackaged by some Dutch butchers.

Post by Janet
http://ec.europa.eu/governance/impact/planned_ia/docs/2013_agri_019
_origin_labelling_unprocessed_meat_en.pdf
"Currently mandatory rules on o
rigin labelling exist for several sectors, such as beef, fruit and
vegetables,
bananas, olive oil, wine, eggs, imported poultry, honey and hops. In
particular for beef, the EU legislation
requires the indication of the country of birth, fattening and slaug
hter or the indication of one origin where all
three above mentioned stages of the life ofthe
animal took place in one country.
For other types of meat
(including the ones under the remit of this impact assessment)
, labelling of origin can currently be applied on a voluntary basis
, except for imported poultry meat where origin must be indicated
. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Janet.

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

Janet

2013-12-09 16:17:30 UTC

Post by Martin
Adding water is apparently against EU rules.

Can you find a cite for that?

The following appears to suggest EU rules permit it (with limits or
labelling requirement if over the limit)

http://www.worldpoultry.net/Broilers/Markets--Trade/2011/3/EU-
Commission-launches-study-on-water-content-in-poultry-meat-WP008570W/

Janet

Martin

2013-12-09 17:30:41 UTC

Post by Martin
Adding water is apparently against EU rules.

Can you find a cite for that?
The following appears to suggest EU rules permit it (with limits or
labelling requirement if over the limit)
http://www.worldpoultry.net/Broilers/Markets--Trade/2011/3/EU-
Commission-launches-study-on-water-content-in-poultry-meat-WP008570W/

This article gives the tolerances allowed.
http://www.gradus.bg/en/informirani/view/1/Chicken-with-added-water.html

Without spending a week wading through EU legislation, I can't quote the
original regulation. I saw the EU quoted in a Dutch newspaper article as the
reason that the Dutch were cracking down on adding water by tumbling.

The Guardian wrote -
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/06/supermarket-frozen-chicken-breasts-water
"The Dutch Food Safety Authority told the Guardian that chicken produced in this
way was illegal. It has made several enforcement visits to tumbling factories in
the Netherlands in recent months to stop the practice of adding water to
imported chicken destined for resale as raw meat."

--
Martin in Zuid Holland

White Spirit

2013-12-13 17:02:13 UTC

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

What do you have against foreign chicken?

Janet

2013-12-13 17:27:56 UTC

In article <l8feil$vno$***@dont-email.me>, ***@homechoice.co.uk
says...

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

Janet.

White Spirit

2013-12-13 17:33:09 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

I have read the thread. Presumably, you make the assumption that all
foreign chicken is treated in a similar manner because you have a
propensity for making generalisations without thinking things through.

At least we are able to clear that up.

Jane Gillett

2013-12-14 07:04:16 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

I have read the thread. Presumably, you make the assumption that all
foreign chicken is treated in a similar manner

If Janet is anything like me in this issue she may feel that way because in
UK we have laws about the ways poultry is raised and processed while these
laws do not necessarily exist - or are sometimes not enforced - outside UK.
A colleague who farms in France once pointed out that laws involved in
agriculture in their area were enforced by the local mayor who was an
elected official in many cases in an agricultural region. I certainly don't
assume that all foreign chicken is treated in the same manner but prefer
the treatment I can have more confidence in through our UK legal system. No
it's not all either imperfect or perfect in either case.

Post by White Spirit
because you have a
propensity for making generalisations without thinking things through.

Can we have your relevant data please? What evidence is this statement
based on?

Post by White Spirit
At least we are able to clear that up.

OK. If that satisfies you. Personally, I don't think it makes a sufficient
case to convict Janet.

Jane

--
Jane Gillett : ***@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-14 11:15:53 UTC

Following a post by Jane Gillett

Post by White Spirit
I have read the thread. Presumably, you make the assumption that all
foreign chicken is treated in a similar manner

theres a prevelant attitude in this country, mainly amoungst older
people that british is always best and johhny foreigner isnt to be
trusted. Hence our attitude to the EU.
Theres some justifcation in some areas, but a lot of it is illusion,
as was our belief in our football prowess when we were shocked at
losing to a foreign team (Hungary was it?) in the 50s.
France and Germany still have car industries, maybe we could have
learnt something there?

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wallwould stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

White Spirit

2013-12-15 11:08:02 UTC

Post by White Spirit
What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

I have read the thread. Presumably, you make the assumption that all
foreign chicken is treated in a similar manner

If that's the case, it would be a simple matter for her to say so.

Post by White Spirit
because you have a
propensity for making generalisations without thinking things through.

Can we have your relevant data please? What evidence is this statement
based on?

The fact that she advised me to read the thread when the only issue
presented is to do with how frozen chicken is produced. That does not
encompass every possible scenario for foreign chicken in this country.

Post by White Spirit
At least we are able to clear that up.

OK. If that satisfies you. Personally, I don't think it makes a sufficient
case to convict Janet.

I wasn't aware that this is a court of law.

RustyHinge

2013-12-15 11:14:29 UTC

Post by White Spirit
What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

I have read the thread. Presumably, you make the assumption that all
foreign chicken is treated in a similar manner

If that's the case, it would be a simple matter for her to say so.

Post by White Spirit
because you have a
propensity for making generalisations without thinking things through.

Can we have your relevant data please? What evidence is this statement
based on?

Post by White Spirit
At least we are able to clear that up.

OK. If that satisfies you. Personally, I don't think it makes a sufficient
case to convict Janet.

I wasn't aware that this is a court of law.

Or that you were the prosecuting barrister?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

White Spirit

2013-12-15 11:17:33 UTC

Post by Jane Gillett
OK. If that satisfies you. Personally, I don't think it makes a sufficient
case to convict Janet.

I wasn't aware that this is a court of law.

Or that you were the prosecuting barrister?

I don't need to wear a powdered wig in order to make observations about
someone's demeanour.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 11:34:44 UTC

Following a post by White Spirit

Post by RustyHinge
Or that you were the prosecuting barrister?

I don't need to wear a powdered wig

it would look a bit camp for just usenet.

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Ophelia

2013-12-15 11:37:47 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by White Spirit

Post by RustyHinge
Or that you were the prosecuting barrister?

I don't need to wear a powdered wig

it would look a bit camp for just usenet.

So what are you wearing this fine morning as you sit at your computer? :)

I am still in my jambies and am just off to shower and dress:)))

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 11:47:16 UTC

Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Ophelia
So what are you wearing this fine morning as you sit at your computer? :)

stockings, suspenders and a corset

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Ophelia

2013-12-15 11:52:50 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Ophelia
So what are you wearing this fine morning as you sit at your computer? :)

stockings, suspenders and a corset

Pretty much as I imagined you!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 11:55:20 UTC

Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Mike.. . . .
stockings, suspenders and a corset

Pretty much as I imagined you!

well, you never know who might be using at your webcam. You have to
make an effort!

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Ophelia

2013-12-15 11:56:40 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Mike.. . . .
stockings, suspenders and a corset

Pretty much as I imagined you!

well, you never know who might be using at your webcam. You have to
make an effort!

True ...

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

RustyHinge

2013-12-15 12:34:21 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Ophelia
So what are you wearing this fine morning as you sit at your computer? :)

stockings, suspenders and a corset

Must try harder - or you'll never be a lumberjack.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 11:54:10 UTC

Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Ophelia
So what are you wearing

so I take it you don't yet have the software that operates other
peoples webcams remotely?

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Ophelia

2013-12-15 11:56:09 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Ophelia
So what are you wearing

so I take it you don't yet have the software that operates other
peoples webcams remotely?

Hopefully not!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

White Spirit

2013-12-15 11:41:40 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by White Spirit

Post by RustyHinge
Or that you were the prosecuting barrister?

I don't need to wear a powdered wig

it would look a bit camp for just usenet.

That would rather depend on whether you have the frock coat and frilly
shirt to go with it. I have those but not the wig.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 11:44:01 UTC

Following a post by White Spirit

Post by Jane Gillett
Can we have your relevant data please? What evidence is this statement
based on?

Poulet de Bresse for instance.

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Jane Gillett

2013-12-16 08:33:23 UTC

Post by White Spirit
What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

I have read the thread. Presumably, you make the assumption that all
foreign chicken is treated in a similar manner

If that's the case, it would be a simple matter for her to say so.

Her choice.

Post by White Spirit
because you have a
propensity for making generalisations without thinking things through.

Can we have your relevant data please? What evidence is this statement
based on?

It's a topic which we and other groups discuss from time to time so the
various issues which crop up tend to get included even when not
specifically covered on any particular occasion and which I, and possibly
others, tend to assume included.

Post by White Spirit
At least we are able to clear that up.

OK. If that satisfies you. Personally, I don't think it makes a sufficient
case to convict Janet.

I wasn't aware that this is a court of law.

It's not but reasnable justification is appropriate.

Cheers
jane

--
Jane Gillett : ***@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.

White Spirit

2013-12-16 13:35:46 UTC

Post by White Spirit
What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

I have read the thread. Presumably, you make the assumption that all
foreign chicken is treated in a similar manner

If that's the case, it would be a simple matter for her to say so.

Her choice.

And it's my choice to comment on it.

Post by White Spirit
because you have a
propensity for making generalisations without thinking things through.

Can we have your relevant data please? What evidence is this statement
based on?

By what stretch of the imagination does 'Read the thread' encompass
things occasionally discussed in other threads and in other groups?

Post by White Spirit
At least we are able to clear that up.

OK. If that satisfies you. Personally, I don't think it makes a sufficient
case to convict Janet.

I wasn't aware that this is a court of law.

It's not but reasnable justification is appropriate.

Reasonable grounds were present and the Prosecution rests its case.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 14:12:04 UTC

Following a post by Janet

Post by White Spirit
What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

the thread does not tell us the foreign chicken is bad , or frozen
chicken, it tells us about a poor practice in some budget ranges.
I tend to go for organic in chickens.

One thing to avoid appears to be farmed fish, as taking sand eels for
feed has damaged puffin populations and farmed salmon is damaging the
wild populations (something to do with lice). Also IIRC far eastern
prawn farms are destroying coastal habitat. You cannot win with fish.

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

RustyHinge

2013-12-15 14:31:15 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
You cannot win with fish.

I have chips with fish - sometimes. (Today it's sweet-pickled herring
fillets on cream crackers..)

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 15:09:42 UTC

Following a post by RustyHinge

Post by RustyHinge
I have chips with fish

Waitrose do "breaded cod goujons", suspiciously like fish fingers.

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Ophelia

2013-12-15 15:21:18 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by RustyHinge

Post by RustyHinge
I have chips with fish

Waitrose do "breaded cod goujons", suspiciously like fish fingers.

LOL that will be posh fish fingers then?

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 15:28:51 UTC

Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Mike.. . . .
Waitrose do "breaded cod goujons", suspiciously like fish fingers.

LOL that will be posh fish fingers then?

eaten with tartare sauce and a sliver of lemon, rather than half a
pint of red sugar (otherwise known as ketchup).

I must ask the wine buyer what matches then best. Probably an amusing
little reisling or perhaps a modest txakoli?

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Ophelia

2013-12-15 15:52:19 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Mike.. . . .
Waitrose do "breaded cod goujons", suspiciously like fish fingers.

LOL that will be posh fish fingers then?

eaten with tartare sauce and a sliver of lemon, rather than half a
pint of red sugar (otherwise known as ketchup).
I must ask the wine buyer what matches then best. Probably an amusing
little reisling or perhaps a modest txakoli?

Should be interesting ... :)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

RustyHinge

2013-12-15 16:11:29 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Mike.. . . .
Waitrose do "breaded cod goujons", suspiciously like fish fingers.

LOL that will be posh fish fingers then?

eaten with tartare sauce and a sliver of lemon, rather than half a
pint of red sugar (otherwise known as ketchup).
I must ask the wine buyer what matches then best. Probably an amusing
little reisling or perhaps a modest txakoli?

Should be interesting ... :)

You'll find that they have some in stock. (Deux goujons à Mssrs Waitrose.)

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

RustyHinge

2013-12-15 16:14:17 UTC

Post by RustyHinge
You'll find that they have some in stock. (Deux goujons à Mssrs Waitrose.)

Pardonnez moi: (Deux goujons aux Mssrs Waitrose.)

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

RustyHinge

2013-12-15 16:08:25 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Ophelia

Post by Mike.. . . .
Waitrose do "breaded cod goujons", suspiciously like fish fingers.

LOL that will be posh fish fingers then?

eaten with tartare sauce and a sliver of lemon, rather than half a
pint of red sugar (otherwise known as ketchup).
I must ask the wine buyer what matches then best. Probably an amusing
little reisling or perhaps a modest txakoli?

Entre deux Mers?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-15 17:39:59 UTC

Following a post by RustyHinge

Post by Mike.. . . .
I must ask the wine buyer what matches then best. Probably an amusing
little reisling or perhaps a modest txakoli?

Entre deux Mers?

anything that amuses la bouche

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Jane Gillett

2013-12-16 08:46:58 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Janet

Post by White Spirit
What do you have against foreign chicken?

Read the thread.

the thread does not tell us the foreign chicken is bad , or frozen
chicken, it tells us about a poor practice in some budget ranges.
I tend to go for organic in chickens.
One thing to avoid appears to be farmed fish, as taking sand eels for
feed has damaged puffin populations and farmed salmon is damaging the
wild populations (something to do with lice).

Thanks. Didn't know that. Well, I knew sand eels seemed to be moving
northwards - recent reduction of kittiwakes in SW England among other
things - but understood that was deemed due to warming of northern waters.

Post by Mike.. . . .
Also IIRC far eastern
prawn farms are destroying coastal habitat. You cannot win with fish.

Tend to avoid prawns already because a trade in shipping prawns to the far
east for shelling and back (price cf western labour) seems a bad use of
fuel.

<IF> we had control over "our" waters in the way we did before our govt
decided to take us into EU then we <could> control the way we took "our"
fish in a sustainable way - well, we could try! Couldn't control effects of
Arctic warming of course, I admit. As it is, any good effects of our
controlling our fishing would be negated by other EU members. I guess fish
stocks have to be sacrificed to UK economic survival.

Cheers
jane

--
Jane Gillett : ***@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.

RustyHinge

2013-12-16 14:58:09 UTC

[fishslice]

Post by Mike.. . . .
One thing to avoid appears to be farmed fish, as taking sand eels for
feed has damaged puffin populations and farmed salmon is damaging the
wild populations (something to do with lice).

[/fishslice]

The Atlantic Conveyor only has to shift a bit to change the temperature
of our waters, and it is believed to be the resultant warming that is
affecting the sand-eel population(s) rather than overfishing.

That is not to say that there _isn't_ overfishing...

If, rather than throwing unwanted fish overboard, it was mandatory to
land it to have it turned into fishmeal and similar, much of this
fishing for the bottom-ish end of the foodchain could be avoided.

ISTR hearing on The Home Service of Auntie that fish which feed off sea
lice - are being / may be - introduced as a natural control. Not heard
anything lately.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-16 16:06:56 UTC

Following a post by RustyHinge

Post by RustyHinge
The Atlantic Conveyor only has to shift a bit to change the temperature
of our waters, and it is believed to be the resultant warming that is
affecting the sand-eel population(s) rather than overfishing.

Its both.

Post by RustyHinge
That is not to say that there _isn't_ overfishing...

Its not so much "overfishing" as targetting sand eels to feed farmed
fish.

Post by RustyHinge
If, rather than throwing unwanted fish overboard, it was mandatory to
land it to have it turned into fishmeal and similar, much of this
fishing for the bottom-ish end of the foodchain could be avoided.

thats a good idea!

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Tim C.

2013-12-17 10:13:04 UTC

thats a good idea!

As long as the fishermen don't get paid for that bycatch, and are also
stopped from dumping it anyway. Or they'll do it deliberately to reduce
(income) losses.

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-17 10:29:05 UTC

Following a post by Tim C.

thats a good idea!

As long as the fishermen don't get paid for that bycatch, and are also
stopped from dumping it anyway. Or they'll do it deliberately to reduce
(income) losses.

pay them a low price, so they don't throw it back but not enough to
justify catching more? We should be EU commissioners!

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Tim C.

2013-12-17 12:13:10 UTC

Post by Tim C.
As long as the fishermen don't get paid for that bycatch, and are also
stopped from dumping it anyway. Or they'll do it deliberately to reduce
(income) losses.

pay them a low price, so they don't throw it back but not enough to
justify catching more? We should be EU commissioners!

Something like that.. :)

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

RustyHinge

2013-12-17 11:11:08 UTC

thats a good idea!

As long as the fishermen don't get paid for that bycatch, and are also
stopped from dumping it anyway. Or they'll do it deliberately to reduce
(income) losses.

Every silver darling has a cloud.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-16 16:05:19 UTC

Following a post by Jane Gillett

Post by Jane Gillett
Well, I knew sand eels seemed to be moving
northwards - recent reduction of kittiwakes in SW England among other
things - but understood that was deemed due to warming of northern waters.

that too

Post by Mike.. . . .
Also IIRC far eastern
prawn farms are destroying coastal habitat. You cannot win with fish.

Tend to avoid prawns already because a trade in shipping prawns to the far
east for shelling and back (price cf western labour) seems a bad use of
fuel.
<IF> we had control over "our" waters in the way we did before our govt
decided to take us into EU then we <could> control the way we took "our"
fish in a sustainable way - well, we could try! Couldn't control effects of
Arctic warming of course, I admit. As it is, any good effects of our
controlling our fishing would be negated by other EU members. I guess fish
stocks have to be sacrificed to UK economic survival.

EU has fish quotas to try and preserve fish stocks. When only Brits
could fish our shores were we doing a good job of preserving stocks?
No. Our cod was probably heading the way of the Grand Banks.
The systems have so far been far from perfect but they are trying to
improve them to avoid "discard".
EU means anybody can work anywhere, that includes fishermen. did you
know many spanish crewed and owned boats were british registered
anyway under the old regime?

Is the problem isnt the EU or overfishing? The EU is trying to stop
that.

The other side of the coin is that many spanish teachers are losing
jobs in Spain to Brits as they want subjects taught in English. you
will not read that in the UK press. (I learnt of it from a Britsh
language teacher living in Madrid).

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-16 16:09:07 UTC

Following a post by Mike.. . . .

that too

(the reductions are not just in the SW)

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Tim C.

2013-12-17 10:15:37 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Our cod was probably heading the way of the Grand Banks.

Hence we needed to invade Iceland's waters in the cod war. (that's it in a
nutshell, I think)

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-17 10:31:52 UTC

Following a post by Tim C.

Post by Mike.. . . .
Our cod was probably heading the way of the Grand Banks.

Hence we needed to invade Iceland's waters in the cod war. (that's it in a
nutshell, I think)

Yes, the hypocrisy of the little Englander position. Iceland ahead of
the game in protecting fishing, we object and want a free for all,
then object to a free for all in our waters. Much later everybody else
realizes the fish is running out and blames the EU, as usual.

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Jane Gillett

2013-12-18 08:59:49 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Tim C.

Post by Mike.. . . .
Our cod was probably heading the way of the Grand Banks.

Hence we needed to invade Iceland's waters in the cod war. (that's it in a
nutshell, I think)

Didn't realise the history. I can understand the feelings about hypocracy
if that is all the way it happened.

Now. While we can be ashamed of the past, we cannot change it and the
question is where do we go from here. Being in the EU means that all
countries of the EU can fish the waters around UK presumeably. UK can
therefore not effectively take any action to help maintain stocks as
positive steps UK fishing industry takes can and probably would be negated
by non-UK boats.

So. We rely on EU rules instead. These have two characteristics which come
to mind immediately:
1. Any legislation requiring processing and agreement by anything as big as
EU will take a long time and the fish stocks will be very hard hit in the
meantime. IS there any immediate legislation which can come into effect now?
2. Compliance of any country's industry with EU regs requires policing by
the country concerned and I'm not convinced that there is a history of such
policing. That's with reports I've heard of in agric and ISTM fish would
very likely be similar.

Jane

--
Jane Gillett : ***@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-18 12:03:26 UTC

Following a post by Jane Gillett

Post by Mike.. . . .
Yes, the hypocrisy of the little Englander position. Iceland ahead of
the game in protecting fishing, we object and want a free for all,
then object to a free for all in our waters. Much later everybody else
realizes the fish is running out and blames the EU, as usual.

Didn't realise the history. I can understand the feelings about hypocracy
if that is all the way it happened.

Maybe slightly exaggerated for effect. I'm not sure if the Iceland 200
mile limit was *all* about long term conservation, you probably will
get a different answer from Icelandic and UK sources!
Guess where I went on holiday then, yep, Iceland :-(

Post by Jane Gillett
Now. While we can be ashamed of the past, we cannot change it and the
question is where do we go from here. Being in the EU means that all
countries of the EU can fish the waters around UK presumeably. UK can
therefore not effectively take any action to help maintain stocks as
positive steps UK fishing industry takes can and probably would be negated
by non-UK boats.

A) the point is the EU *is* taking those steps, the EU isn't somebody
else with totally different ideas, it includes *us* and the EU
systems, when a good working version is in place, will control all the
EU waters and hopefully conserve fish the only way you can, over a
wide area. How could UK have conserved fish just working in a up to 30
mile limit?

B) What action did the UK take before EU? None?

C) Also remember that a lot of the harm was done by Russian factory
boats outside our 30 mile limit, not Spanish/EU trawlers

Post by Jane Gillett
So. We rely on EU rules instead. These have two characteristics which come
1. Any legislation requiring processing and agreement by anything as big as
EU will take a long time and the fish stocks will be very hard hit in the
meantime. IS there any immediate legislation which can come into effect now?

its already in place. Has been for some time. There is a lot of
argument about how the discard system works and that will be changed
at some point to a more efficient system like the one Rusty suggested
yesterday. Seems what you are hearing about EU down there is all
wrong.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Fisheries_Policy>

Post by Jane Gillett
2. Compliance of any country's industry with EU regs requires policing by
the country concerned and I'm not convinced that there is a history of such
policing. That's with reports I've heard of in agric and ISTM fish would
very likely be similar.

Who do you think polices the waters round UK? AFAIK its pretty strict.
I don't accept the foreigners always ignore the rules and Brits always
do argument. There's probably some truth in it but I think its way
exaggerated by EU knockers. Fishing is an example of how an
organisation like the EU can make something work when individual
countries cannot. Meanwhile quite a lot of British fishermen still
argue there's loads of fish and its all the EUs fault, so what self
regulation would there have been without EU?
--
Mike... . . . .
MORI polls of public perception v reality(in brackets)
Lone parents 28% (3%)
Benefit fraud 24% (0.7%)
Muslim 22% (5%)
Unemployed 22% (8%)
Black/asian 30% (11%)
65+ 36% (16%)
Christian 34% (59%)
Not born UK 31% (13%)

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-18 12:16:09 UTC

Following a post by Mike.. . . .

Post by Mike.. . . .
There is a lot of
argument about how the discard system works and that will be changed
at some poin

We have voted to end the discard system and replace it in 2014
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12598660>
--
Mike... . . . .
MORI polls of public perception v reality(in brackets)
Lone parents 28% (3%)
Benefit fraud 24% (0.7%)
Muslim 22% (5%)
Unemployed 22% (8%)
Black/asian 30% (11%)
65+ 36% (16%)
Christian 34% (59%)
Not born UK 31% (13%)

Jane Gillett

2013-12-19 09:28:43 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Following a post by Jane Gillett

Didn't realise the history. I can understand the feelings about hypocracy
if that is all the way it happened.

Envy!!!!!

Well, I guess we could if we put our minds to it but when we were in London
area we just wanted Devon and now, here, we've taken on responsibilities!

A) the point is the EU *is* taking those steps, the EU isn't somebody
else with totally different ideas, it includes *us*

But we're a minor <one> in a large number wo all rightly want a say...

Post by Mike.. . . .
and the EU
systems, when a good working version is in place,

As I say, "when".... what fish situation will there be by then?

Post by Mike.. . . .
will control all the
EU waters and hopefully conserve fish the only way you can, over a
wide area. How could UK have conserved fish just working in a up to 30
mile limit?

Wide area's good, agreed.

Post by Mike.. . . .
B) What action did the UK take before EU? None?

I doubt if fishing had such a devastating take then.

Post by Mike.. . . .
C) Also remember that a lot of the harm was done by Russian factory
boats outside our 30 mile limit, not Spanish/EU trawlers

True, we had no power outside 30 mile, or whatever, limit. Will EU ( note
"will" not "would" - I accept inevitability) be big enough to control
Russia et al and will they - in reasonable time? If so, they are useful.
Anyway, I guess it's just another part of the natural earth which the human
species will destroy before too long.

If 2014 (other post) then I await reports.

Who do you think polices the waters round UK? AFAIK its pretty strict.
I don't accept the foreigners always ignore the rules and Brits always
do argument.

I wouldn't accept "always" either, not for both foreigner & UK, but a
significant percentage.

Post by Mike.. . . .
There's probably some truth in it but I think its way
exaggerated by EU knockers.

Yep.

Post by Mike.. . . .
Fishing is an example of how an
organisation like the EU can

"Could". Remain to be convinced.

Post by Mike.. . . .
make something work when individual
countries cannot. Meanwhile quite a lot of British fishermen still
argue there's loads of fish and its all the EUs fault, so what self
regulation would there have been without EU?

Contact with local admittedly small fishing agree fish need conserving and
favour conservation measures incl those which do not cut out other
countries. No contact with large fishers.

Cheers
Jane

--
Jane Gillett : ***@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-19 10:20:14 UTC

Following a post by Jane Gillett

Post by Mike.. . . .
A) the point is the EU *is* taking those steps, the EU isn't somebody
else with totally different ideas, it includes *us*

But we're a minor <one> in a large number wo all rightly want a say...

I don't think we are "minor".

Post by Mike.. . . .
and the EU
systems, when a good working version is in place,

As I say, "when".... what fish situation will there be by then?

as I said further on, its been in place for years. Its about
perfecting things.

Post by Mike.. . . .
will control all the
EU waters and hopefully conserve fish the only way you can, over a
wide area. How could UK have conserved fish just working in a up to 30
mile limit?

Wide area's good, agreed.

Post by Mike.. . . .
B) What action did the UK take before EU? None?

I doubt if fishing had such a devastating take then.

I think the fish stocks have been declining for about 100 years.

Post by Mike.. . . .
C) Also remember that a lot of the harm was done by Russian factory
boats outside our 30 mile limit, not Spanish/EU trawlers

The EU fishing limit is 200 miles, illegal fishing boats will be
arrested, Russia isn't *so* powerful now.

If 2014 (other post) then I await reports.

*changes* in 2014. The current system is defective where boats have a
bycatch of a species they have no quota for. That's all. The simple
fact is the EU is doing the job where the UK didn't and couldn't.

Who do you think polices the waters round UK? AFAIK its pretty strict.
I don't accept the foreigners always ignore the rules and Brits always
do argument.

I wouldn't accept "always" either, not for both foreigner & UK, but a
significant percentage.

Post by Mike.. . . .
There's probably some truth in it but I think its way
exaggerated by EU knockers.

Yep.

Post by Mike.. . . .
Fishing is an example of how an
organisation like the EU can

"Could". Remain to be convinced.

No, "have". What concrete things are you not convinced of?

Contact with local admittedly small fishing agree fish need conserving and
favour conservation measures incl those which do not cut out other
countries. No contact with large fishers.

--
Mike... . . . .
MORI polls of public perception v reality(in brackets)
Lone parents 28% (3%)
Benefit fraud 24% (0.7%)
Muslim 22% (5%)
Unemployed 22% (8%)
Black/asian 30% (11%)
65+ 36% (16%)
Christian 34% (59%)
Not born UK 31% (13%)

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-19 10:33:02 UTC

and another thing. .

Post by Jane Gillett
But we're a minor <one> in a large number wo all rightly want a say...

I don't think we are "minor".

I think we have a choice of having a say in how Europe acts, which has
an impact on the world, or being largely sidelined and having to
conform to what we had no say in.

The British Empire option is no longer available.
--
Mike... . . . .
MORI polls of public perception v reality(in brackets)
Lone parents 28% (3%)
Benefit fraud 24% (0.7%)
Muslim 22% (5%)
Unemployed 22% (8%)
Black/asian 30% (11%)
65+ 36% (16%)
Christian 34% (59%)
Not born UK 31% (13%)

Janet

2013-12-19 13:38:49 UTC

A) the point is the EU *is* taking those steps, the EU isn't somebody
else with totally different ideas, it includes *us*

But we're a minor <one> in a large number wo all rightly want a say...

We're not a minor one.

Not all EU members have fishing interests, for obvious reasons. Among
those who do, Britain is a major player.

Janet

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-19 14:33:57 UTC

Following a post by Jane Gillett

Post by Jane Gillett
Contact with local admittedly small fishing agree fish need conserving and
favour conservation measures incl those which do not cut out other
countries. No contact with large fishers.

its all very well for some local inshore fishers to agree (who operate
under different regulations IIRC) but its *very* hard for them to
conserve without regulation, that's always been a big issue for
fishing as opposed to farming, where you operate the land with
exclusive use.

I have no direct contact with any fishermen, but you have to remember
they will give you their side of it, which in the UK, is often
starting from an "EU is bad" position. To have an informed view you
need to do much more than that. You need to at least be aware of what
conservation measures are in place and how they are enforced.
Otherwise its like getting your view of the police exclusively from
burglers! Remember, many fishermen deny there is a problem, as many
oilmen deny climate change. There's a reason for that.

The EU is far from perfect, as all government isn't, (particularly
ours IMHO), but for fishing the EU is working for sustainability,
which can only be achieved by overseeing the whole multi national
fishing area.

--
Mike... . . . .

Janet

2013-12-18 15:13:00 UTC

In article <***@higherstert.co.uk>,
***@higherstert.co.uk says...
. Being in the EU means that all

Post by Jane Gillett
countries of the EU can fish the waters around UK presumeably. UK can
therefore not effectively take any action to help maintain stocks

Wrong assumption.

Post by Jane Gillett
2. Compliance of any country's industry with EU regs requires policing by
the country concerned and I'm not convinced that there is a history of such
policing.

<sigh>

The Royal Navy operates UK fishery protection vessels which are on
constant duty at sea to detect or deter illegal fishing activity, such
as the use of prohibited equipment and fishing in protected areas.

Scotland has separate responsibility for protecting Scottish waters, and
its own marine protection fleet and planes. I live in a commercial
fishing area and beside a marine protected zone; we frequently see the
fisheries protection vessels on patrol.

Janet.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-18 15:33:33 UTC

Following a post by Janet

Post by Janet
Scotland has separate responsibility for protecting Scottish waters, and
its own marine protection fleet and planes. I live in a commercial
fishing area and beside a marine protected zone; we frequently see the
fisheries protection vessels on patrol.

and the two biggest fishing fleets in the EU are based at Frazerbrugh
and Peterhead.
--
Mike... . . . .
MORI polls of public perception v reality(in brackets)
Lone parents 28% (3%)
Benefit fraud 24% (0.7%)
Muslim 22% (5%)
Unemployed 22% (8%)
Black/asian 30% (11%)
65+ 36% (16%)
Christian 34% (59%)
Not born UK 31% (13%)

RustyHinge

2013-12-18 15:52:54 UTC

Post by Janet
<sigh>
The Royal Navy operates UK fishery protection vessels which are on
constant duty at sea to detect or deter illegal fishing activity, such
as the use of prohibited equipment and fishing in protected areas.
Scotland has separate responsibility for protecting Scottish waters, and
its own marine protection fleet and planes. I live in a commercial
fishing area and beside a marine protected zone; we frequently see the
fisheries protection vessels on patrol.

Many years ago a fisheries protection vessel visited Stornoway. It was a
third as long again as the quay.

It was Dutch, and an unterzeeboot to boot.

There was a guided tour of the inside, and I must say it looked a lot
more like an hotel than the previous (British) one which was at the
time, I believe, the last WWII sub still operational.

Ours had lots of 'Oooh! Shiny!' brass valves and other polished
hardware, and painted pipes along the central companionway, and it
*looked* like a proper (Heath Robinson) sub innit.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Jane Gillett

2013-12-19 09:53:23 UTC

I'd love to have seen it. I did have the priviledge of a tour of a UK sub
in Plymouth some years ago and it was fascinating. Remember at some point
somebody asking when we were going to see the engines only to be told they
were just to his left. There were, of course, some parts they did NOT take
us to see. Really claustrophibic AFAIWC but I wouldn't have missed it.

Post by RustyHinge
Ours had lots of 'Oooh! Shiny!' brass valves and other polished
hardware, and painted pipes along the central companionway, and it
*looked* like a proper (Heath Robinson) sub innit.

Talking of polished brass...Takes me back to tour of the lighthouse on Out
Skerries in Shetland. Somebody asked what it took to keep the brass rails
polished only to be told that, once polished, they were not touched. And
we'd been putting our hands all over them!

Cheers
Jane

--
Jane Gillett : ***@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.

Jane Gillett

2013-12-19 09:46:31 UTC

Post by Jane Gillett
. Being in the EU means that all

Post by Jane Gillett
countries of the EU can fish the waters around UK presumeably. UK can
therefore not effectively take any action to help maintain stocks

Wrong assumption.

Right assumption is?, then?

Post by Jane Gillett
2. Compliance of any country's industry with EU regs requires policing by
the country concerned and I'm not convinced that there is a history of such
policing.

<sigh>

OK.

Post by Jane Gillett
The Royal Navy operates UK fishery protection vessels which are on
constant duty at sea to detect or deter illegal fishing activity, such
as the use of prohibited equipment and fishing in protected areas.

Yes. It's what's <legal> in EU that is the issue. Fisheries protection
won't/can't deal with that or shouldn't. The time taken to get agreement
for change where advised in such a large diverse body is vital. I accept I
was wrong about the way policing of fishing works; in agric, the rules take
effect within the boundaries of the country concerned and so that country
has the job of policing - another country cannot take any physical action,
that would be invasion - and reports to EU would take too long - and from
reports of people resident in mainland Europe I get the impression that, in
agric at least, the enforcement is often by the local mayor or equivalent
who is an elected official and do I have to spell out the rest? Or, more
recently, it seems that the folk of Brittany have been taking certain rural
road traffic tax measures into their own hands by dealing with local
equipment installed regardless of rulings from Paris. Seems local
prevention measures somehow seem to turn up too late to - er - prevent.

Cheers
Jane

Post by Jane Gillett
Scotland has separate responsibility for protecting Scottish waters, and
its own marine protection fleet and planes. I live in a commercial
fishing area and beside a marine protected zone; we frequently see the
fisheries protection vessels on patrol.
Janet.

--
Jane Gillett : ***@higherstert.co.uk : Totnes, Devon.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-19 10:23:35 UTC

Following a post by Jane Gillett

Post by Jane Gillett
. Being in the EU means that all

Post by Jane Gillett
countries of the EU can fish the waters around UK presumeably. UK can
therefore not effectively take any action to help maintain stocks

Wrong assumption.

Right assumption is?, then?

the EU have taken action to conserve fish stocks and UK enforces
rules.

Post by Jane Gillett
2. Compliance of any country's industry with EU regs requires policing by
the country concerned and I'm not convinced that there is a history of such
policing.

<sigh>

OK.

Yes. It's what's <legal> in EU that is the issue. Fisheries protection
won't/can't deal with that or shouldn't

Can you spell out what you think is wrong with the legal position?
--
Mike... . . . .
MORI polls of public perception v reality(in brackets)
Lone parents 28% (3%)
Benefit fraud 24% (0.7%)
Muslim 22% (5%)
Unemployed 22% (8%)
Black/asian 30% (11%)
65+ 36% (16%)
Christian 34% (59%)
Not born UK 31% (13%)

Janet

2013-12-19 14:02:23 UTC

Post by Jane Gillett
. Being in the EU means that all

Post by Jane Gillett
countries of the EU can fish the waters around UK presumeably. UK can
therefore not effectively take any action to help maintain stocks

Wrong assumption.

Right assumption is?, then?

Post by Jane Gillett
2. Compliance of any country's industry with EU regs requires policing by
the country concerned and I'm not convinced that there is a history of such
policing.

<sigh>

OK.

Yes. It's what's <legal> in EU that is the issue.

No, you said above the issue is policing the law. Which is what the
fisheries protection services do.

Post by Jane Gillett
Fisheries protection
won't/can't deal with that or shouldn't.

Nonsense.

They have the power to board ships and inspect (at sea and in port),
warn, report, impose penalties and detain ships in port.

Janet.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-19 14:50:01 UTC

Following a post by Jane Gillett

Post by Jane Gillett
I get the impression that, in
agric at least, the enforcement is often by the local mayor or equivalent
who is an elected official and do I have to spell out the rest?

where are inspectors and the police not under the control of an
elected mayor or council leader? Certainly they are in the UK.

--
Mike... . . . .

RustyHinge

2013-12-17 11:12:36 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Our cod was probably heading the way of the Grand Banks.

Hence we needed to invade Iceland's waters in the cod war. (that's it in a
nutshell, I think)

ITYM 'cockleshell'.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Mike.. . . .

2013-12-17 11:27:34 UTC

Following a post by RustyHinge

Post by Tim C.
Hence we needed to invade Iceland's waters in the cod war. (that's it in a
nutshell, I think)

ITYM 'cockleshell'.

I though the "cockleshell heroes" boats looked more like mussel shells
or even razor clams.

--
Mike... . . . .
If the Daily Mail goes to the wall who would stand up for the persecuted minority
of people from comfortable areas?
Alan Partridge

Tim C.

2013-12-17 12:13:55 UTC

Post by Mike.. . . .
Our cod was probably heading the way of the Grand Banks.

Hence we needed to invade Iceland's waters in the cod war. (that's it in a
nutshell, I think)

ITYM 'cockleshell'.

:-)

--
Tim C. Linz, Austria.

RustyHinge

2013-12-13 17:42:20 UTC

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

What do you have against foreign chicken?

Sometimes, I can't understand them.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Ophelia

2013-12-13 17:53:42 UTC

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

What do you have against foreign chicken?

Sometimes, I can't understand them.

You will just need to brush up on your clucks!!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Phil Cook

2013-12-13 18:54:03 UTC

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

What do you have against foreign chicken?

Sometimes, I can't understand them.

You will just need to brush up on your clucks!!

Apparently Dutch chickens go tok tok, French ones cot cot and German
ones gack gack.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linguistic_onomatopoeias#Chicken_clucking>

--
Phil Cook

Ophelia

2013-12-13 19:01:07 UTC

Post by Janet
I never buy frozen OR imported chicken.

What do you have against foreign chicken?

Sometimes, I can't understand them.

You will just need to brush up on your clucks!!

Apparently Dutch chickens go tok tok, French ones cot cot and German ones
gack gack.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linguistic_onomatopoeias#Chicken_clucking>

Pah, flippin' foreigners:)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

RustyHinge

2013-12-13 23:12:41 UTC